Paphos People

Well i've plenty of those going on in my life at the moment, i can tell you all.

I thought i'd post this as i'm interested in the opinions of other people, rather than friends, who may spin a different pespective on my situation. I'll keep it as brief as possible.

I split with husband, we have two young children, and i had to move back in with parents. Ok, that was bad enough but shortly after my dad was diagnosed with stomach cancer and has undergone key hole surgery to insert a feeding tube into his small intestine and has started chemo, which hasn't gone fantastically and may not be able to have anymore. Every night i connect him up to a liquid feed to ensure he gets adequate nutrition and give him his medication. He is 77 yrs old.

So, 3 weeks after dad is diagnosed my mum (also 77 yrs) is diagnosed with advanced ovarian cancer and she has started chemo which has also not gone well and she is now back in hospital with a chest infection, diarrohea and can't use her legs because she hasn't been up and about for over a week now. Not sure what will happen regarding her chemo as it's due next Thu but she's in no fit state to receive it.

Now, i work 3 days per week and my dad is making very clear that he is very disappointed in me that i haven't given up my job to become their carer. I tried to explain that firstly, i need the money, but he said that leaving my husband was my own doing and he had no sympathy. Second, i was honest and said i needed that time for me and i couldn't cope with being home 24/7 as a carer. He just sees it as i'm not interested. Is it not enough that i am there every night and 4 days a week? Am i wrong to want some 'me' time even if it is through work? The Specialist Nurses assigned to both parents assumed i'd be giving up work to look after them and even when i said i had two young children to look after they just said i should ring the benefit office to see what i'm entitled to!!

If i'm honest, i'm ranting tonight because i had been planning to come to Cyprus this week and i was even looking for flights today but then mom was admitted to hospital again and that put the lid on my plans. I feel i'm being pushed into a corner and i don't like it. I'm beginning to feel that i want to get my children, pack our bags and just do one, going far away where no one will find us again. I won't though.

I'm due to start Uni in Sept and i can see that slipping away from me. Should i be starting the course with all this going on? I just don't know what to do for the best? I either give up everything for them and i'll be unhappy or i do what i want and make them unhappy. I'm an only child too, so no one else to step into the breach, as it were.

What has happened to them both is tragic, it really is, but i can't do everything and something has to give and i don't know what? One can only imagine what they are feeling and i realise this post is very one sided, ie from my point of view, but in the last 3 months all i ever hear is 'oh it's great you are living with them, what would they do without you?' Nobody ever asks me 'how are you managing, are you ok?' No, i'm not ok, would be the answer, but what can i do?

Moan over. Sorry for the waffle but my head is in a whirl lately with all these thoughts. I'm not heartless, i'm just being honest when i say i don't want to become their carer and it doesn't mean that i don't love them, i just couldn't cope with it.

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Jo. xx

One of the most difficult jobs is being a carer a thankless task

You are in a bit of a no win situation, will you have any regets if the worst happens?
Ovarian cancer is known as the silent killer, as often only diagnosed too late, with poor prognosis.
You must be under terrible stress and i applaud you for being honest. Most carers must feel the same way, but guilt prevents them from speaking .

Sounds like your parents may be on borrowed time,

Have you been able to speak to the consultants to get a true picture?
If time is shorter than you think , it may be important to find out

Good luck

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Angels fly because they take themselves lightly
http://www.sirenasunrise.me.uk

Bit of a devils advocate question here............but who was there to look after you when you were a child?



In the west, if you asked a man who he would save first if he, his wife and mother were on a ship that sank, nine times out of ten he would say "his wife"; If you asked a Japanese man who he would save first, he would say his mother, because he can always get another wife.........................

I do empathise with your situation, but I suspect you are only posting this incredibly personal and sensitive information on here because you already know the answer, but are just unwilling to accept it and want someone else to tell you what it is................well, sorry, but you will have to answer that yourself..........

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Merda taurorum animas conturbit

So very difficult to help. When I was working I worked with people who were sick or had disabilities. I learnt very quickly that you could never tell people what to do but you could help them to see the options and reach their own decisions.
You already know the options available to you I think but want someone to tell you which to take which no one can do.

I do think that you are very brave to say how you are feeling because believe you me i'm sure everyone would feel the same but not be brave enough to voice it.

When my father was very frail and ill (in his nineties) he was in a nursing home. He died 6 years ago and I still feel guilty that I did not do more but I HAD to work and believe you me, the benefits that my dad and I might have been entitled to would not have paid the mortgage. ( I do know what I am saying here as an ex civil servant)

I visited him every day, took him special treats every day and when the petrol strike was on queued up at every petrol station there was for hours on end to ensure I could still visit.

Every day he thanked me for what I was doing for him which is making me cry now as I write this and said how good I was. He would have hated me taking over his personal care .

But that was my situation - there is no right or wrong.

Excellent posts up above and having been in your situation good sound advice.

As a cancer nurse for a large part of my working life this is a situation I came across quite regular and no one can tell you the right and wrongs. To have one parent ill is bad enough but two is hard, I know the stress you are under at the moment and I am wondering if you are letting people know that everything is too much and you need help....because you do, so start by talking to your parents Macmillan Nurse and ask for the practical support and help you need.

Jan

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ALWAYS MOVE FORWARD

Marina

I have a care company in the UK and come across your dilemmas on a daily basis, I have also looked after part-time my parents in to their old age, my mother lived until her 123rd year.

I could not have coped as many daughters wouldnt if it had been 24hrs a day and I am a nurse, You also have 2 small children to consider, and whilst others have said the same we cannot advise you but empathise how difficult a decision it is for you.

My suggestion is for you to seek out a socail worker, who can not only advise but also arrange for carers to support you. She will realise your dilemma and her outcome will be to ensure the whole family is supported sufficiently well to prevent any further family breakdown. You may even contact a child protection social worker as having young children as a single parent they are vulnerable in this scenario. This is not na healthy environment for them with their mother steessed - You need help.

You have to shout loud as they who shout loudest get the support - no one offers it to you, you have to know the system. If you want further advise re the system please pm me and I will try to help you through the maze, SS depts. seem to be different throughout the UK. The government aim at present is prevention as it costs them more money for intervention and total support to families than prevention. Preventing family breakdown (that being you) is their priority. What would happen to your parents and your 2 children if you become ill? You need support.

Good luck and will be happy to speak with you again

Just read that Duchess is saying the same - you must get help from the authorities, no shame is telling them how you feel

Chris

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"If you haven't got a plan, you don't have a map. If you don't have a map, you'll never find the treasure!"

A huge thanks to everyone that has replied. We are having a visit from the Macmillan Nurse on this coming Thursday so i will take the opportunity to have a chat with her. Dad is going to see a surgeon on Tuesday to see if they will now operate without him having his other 2 cycles of chemo. He had such a bad reaction last reaction last time they are unwilling to give him anymore.

Based on your extremely helpful replies, i realise that i need to find out the prognosis for both of them and i am going to speak with each of their Cancer Nurses after the bank holiday to see if they can shed any light. I am sure that my mom is in a worse position than dad as she is already grade 4 cancer. Even if it is the worst scenario, i'm still not sure i could take on the role of cancer 24/7.

Anyway, feeling a lot better today. Just off to take the children to a party at a farm and i can chill out for a bit and have a natter with my friends.

Thanks again everyone.

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Jo. xx

marina,
what a terrible position to be in, no wonder you just want to pack up and run!
even though you want to care for your parents you do still nee 'me' time and more importantly time with your children. caring for loved ones can be physically and emotionally draining.
speak to all the services that you can and get as much help as possible, there is plenty services out there who can advise you what you are entitled to.
as a nurse i dont think it would be selfish to keep your job on it might be your only escapism just now and help you maintain your sanity!
remember through all of this to look after yourself you are no good to your mum and dad if you run yourself ragged trying to do everything on your own.
take care of you and yours,
kathryn

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Kathryn x

Marina

I totally sympathise with your situation and wish you well in whatever direction you decide to take.

Whereabouts in Warwickshire are you? I am only just over the border in Worcestershire so if you want to meet someone new to have a chat, a coffee and a whinge to, just let me know and we can sort something out.

Sarah

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Sarah & Phil

Hi Marina

I used to be a Marie Curie nurse and nursed the terminally ill at home, at night. I have seen this dilema from both sides and I do feel for you.

It is very hard to nurse your loved ones because it can be both mentally and physically
exhausting. I have seen mothers, fathers, wifes and husbands scream at one another through the anguish and anxiety of caring for someone with terminal illness.

You can only do what you can do. It is much easier to be a carer if someone is caring for you. You need to look after you.

Ask the Macmillan nurse for help. There may be Marie Cuire nurses in your area and the Macmillan nurse should be able to arrange this. Or is there a hospice in your area. They can often take in patients for a couple of weeks to help with pain control etc. It would give you some respite and enable you to recharge your batteries.

Take care of yourself

Gilly

Marina,

I agree with the others that you must think of yourself and the children in this awful position that you find yourself in at the moment.

I cared for my Mum for many years and at times I felt that my arms were stretched in different directions trying to care for the family and my Mum and everyone. I had a wonderful Social worker who told me that you as a carer are now entitled to be assessed and your needs taken into consideration. This then trys to ensure that you get respite help to give you time for yourself. So ask for an assessment and tell them just how much responsibility you are prepared to take on bearing in mind that you have two children. Try to understand that your parents are no doubt worried about their health and each other and do not mean to hurt you but have to buffer against someone and you as their nearest and dearest are the one they buffer against. Not easy for you to take but grin and bear it for now.
Let us hope that you get some answers soon as to just how ill they both are and prognosis in each case. Then perhaps you can make more informed decisions.
Have a good weekend and you are not alone but have your friends to speak to. Join a forum for carers as well and they will help you since they understand only too well.
Good luck.
Jan

Thanks again to you all for such wonderful advice and kind words.

I think some of the problems stem from the fact that my mom would never let my nan go into a home and she lived with us for near on 7 years. Even when she was really poorly my mom was having none of it. So, i think my parents are expecting me to look after them because that is what they were prepared to do and did, even though it caused mega arguments between them at times. However, it was a conpetely different set of circumstances to what i'm in. They were already both retired, financially stable and i was a teenager who didn't need looking after, as such. My parents are adamant that there will be no outsiders coming into the house and at this point in time neither of them warrant hospice care.

So, i'm looking forward to meeting the Macmillan nurse on Thursday to discuss their/my options. Is it normal practice for a Macmillan Nurse to ring you up and come for a chat? I thought they only got involved at the end, as it were?

Anyway, had a call last night from the hospital at 2130 saying mom had fallen trying to get to the toilet. They had checked her out and she seemed fine, nothing broken but they had to let us know. So, i'm off there now for a visit and probably an ear bending! Never mind that she had been told not to get out of bed without calling someone to help her first.

Will update soon and thanks again to everyone offering their advice.

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Jo. xx

Marina,
i really feel gor you in this situation. It seems above like PP have given you some sound advice. I know when things are getting on top of me ( nothing like the stndard of stress you have at the moment) i sit don and write a listof hings i could do tomake the situation easier. Then do your best to get through the list then keep it on the fridge, you can then see you are visibly doing something to give you some hope. Also, i worry about the effects on your children, of course throgh no fault of your own. Plan a realy special day out for the three of you ifyou can without the house or grandma and grandad anywhere in sight and have some quality time and depending on their age try and be honest with them in the most simplest terms but being sure not to burden them. I really hope something positive hapens to cheer you up soon. Speak to the macmillan support like you said and i hope you can work things out.

Emma

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I smile cos i don't know whats going on!!!!

This might sound a bit harsh, sorry.

Right if it was me and my wife,i would never in a million yr. let me boys look after us, yes we brought them up, we looked after them, we gave them everything we could, but that does not mean we after payment in our old age for boys to look after us when we are ill.

They will have there own life to get on with, and yes kids to look after and bring them up the best way they can. I would not be so selfish and expect them to drop everything to look after me and wife. We had our boys to bring up as a family.

Here the really harsh bit. I think you should pack up and leave, do what you want for you and your children, as i really do not think your parents are thinking about you at all, it all self self with them. It not fair on you at all, you have a life to lead with your children.

But please think very careful before you do anything, think things through for a while. But remember you and your children come first.

I really hope you have a happy ending to this very sad situation, and wish you and your children all the best.This might sound a bit harsh but i only telling it from my heart sorry if it upset anyone this is how i feel

No offence taken Mark, none whatsoever. I wish i had the balls to do just as you suggested but i'd never be able to live with the guilt.

All i want is for them to meet me halfway and understand the situation from my position. I'm happy to do what i can, when i can, but not everything 24/7. I have a life, a probable future as a single parent and finances to consider. I understand why they want me to care for them as they looked after my mom's mom for 7 years and they wouldn't hear of her going into a home even when she was really poorly and eventually developed dementia. So, i can see that as that is what they were prepared to do, and did, they expect me to do the same for them.

Whatever the outcome i can't take on the caring 24/7. I have my future and my children's future to consider first of all and then i am prepared to do as much as i can to help them. I hope that in time they will understand my way of thinking and accept to meet me halfway on this.

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Jo. xx

To be honest i do not think they will meet you half way ??? The thing is you have to put your children first no matter what. It your life and your childrens you have to put first. I know it hard, i do understand that.I know you just split with hubbie which makes thing so much harder for you, as you brain must be going all over the place at the moment. Please take some time out, have a good think what you think is best in the long run. Do not over do things. It is not down to you now to look after your parents, as you got children to look after????????.

Ok some people on pp will not agree with me, but you do have your own life to get on with now, and just try to make it a happy one for you and children, as you only live ONCE.

I really hope you find peace in your life

That is so good off you

Hi marina this is a sticky one for you and i do feel for you deeply

What you have got to remember is that when people are in pain and scared they often say things that are hurtful especially men as they start to lose their dignity and your father probably feels you are his only option as all his life he has looked after his wife and family

I was in a similar situation only my husband worked away and both my children were young Joe must of only been 2 anyway my grandfather became ill and when he was diagnosed with non hogkins lymphoma i gave up work for 12 months at the time then my grandmother was also diagnosed with cancer of the womb so i had the 2 of them not well at all there own children just wanted the pair of them put in a hospice but i fought with them all as my grandad had made me promise not to let him go in a home so at home he stayed gran was on the mend and he was just getting worse we had some of our best days together talking laughing crying it was an easy decision for me to make as i had a great network of macmillin nurses and when my mother the wonderful maternal woman that she is went off to marry another bloke they brought me up my grandad made me who i am so to him i will always be eternally greatful it wasnt easy by any means watching that big strong man wasting away but i helped him and loved every precious moment of his last months and yes he said some nasty things because of his pain but i could see the pain in his eyes and new the medication was talking sometimes but i was there to hold his hand when passed away and for that i will always be greatful i still miss him so much it hurts but i know in my heart i did what i couldfor him as he did for me all his life

You will have your time and uni cos if you really want it you will do it i wish you all the strengh you will need to help you make the right desicision FOR YOU

You know what people say well they had a good inings but in my opinion if my grandad had only died at 100 i still wouldnt of thought i had enough time with him grandma is 87 now and still going strong so you never can tell i guess

My thoughts are with you take care Alex xx

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I like being in Alex's world even if it is a little strange

Hi Marina. I think that the nurses on here have said more or less what I said in a pm a little while ago, so I won't go over old ground.

Two things have struck me from what I have read on this thread. Firstly, yes your parents were there for you when you were little. But they had a choice. Unless the stork brought you they were instrumental in your being born. So don't go on a guilt trip about repaying what they did for you. When we have children it is our choice and we get so much pleasure from them - they are not an insurance policy for our old age. Secondly, I wonder whether your Mum could have coped with looking after her ailing mother if she had also got an ailing father and two small children to cope with, too. She had a husband to support her - you don't. I was only able to nurse my Mum because I had a wonderful husband who supported me, and my boys were 16 and 18 at the time and well able to look after their own needs. Put on an armour that bounces the guilt straight off. You have to get thick skinned otherwise you will feel that you are constantly failing, and you are not.

Step back. Don't take on false guilt - real guilt is bad enough. Do what you can. Use the services that are there. You are in this situation through no fault of your own, so look at what you can realistically do, be proud that you are there and doing it, and if someone else is involved in giving the care remember that it is because you have organised that care by asking for it. That in itself is a big thing and you should be proud that you are doing that.

As for college, talk to them and see whether you can defer for a year if you feel you need to nearer the time. That will take some pressure off and give you another option.

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Verity.

Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

http://coecyp.blogspot.com

Yes, i've considered this as another option and i still have time to defer Uni until 2009 if need be. On the plus side, Uni is only 3.5 days per week and teaching practice would be the only time i would be doing a 5 day week and the majority of that is not until May 2009. Taking the school hols into account too, it's actually better for me to join the course than stay working the 3 day week that i do now. The only thing i may struggle with is the amount of time i may need to spend at home on academic stuff but i'm a pretty organised kinda gal and if i manage my time effectively i should be able to do it. It's just not knowing how things are going to pan out and how much my studies may be disrupted. I'm inclined to go for it, see what happens and if the worst happens i can take the time out and rejoin again. Not ideal but i'm no psychic and i think i should carry on as i planned.

I've read some interesting and differing opinions over the last couple of days and it has been very helpful indeed. Just from writing it all down in these posts has made me feel 1000 times better, in itself.

Thanks everyone. I hope i can get to meet some/all of you when i'm over in August and have a proper natter.

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Jo. xx

Well said Starchild, wish i was a woman sometimes

Marina,

I can't really add much to what others have said but would just like you to know we are thinking of you and hope you get the help you need. It must be a very traumatic time for you but eventually you will get through it just as we all do somehow when the chips are really down.

I do know something of what you are going through as my mum and brother died within 3 months of each other at the time when my husband had cancer but we got through it and hopefully he is on the mend now.

Just keep your chin up and take all the positives vibes that are being sent to you.

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Lyn

Tough times dont last long but tough people do

Hi all,

Just an update really. I've been with my dad to see the surgeon today and it has been decided that he can have no more chemo as it affected him really badly. The way forward now is a Gastrectomy (total removal of his stomach) which is a scary thought in itself. He can have the op at the end of June and if all goes well after a 2 week stay in hospital he will be allowed home and will be able to manage without having anyone to care for him. He will be a bit slow and weak for a while until he builds himself up again. He'll never eat a 3 course meal again and his diet will be restricted but that will be a small price to pay if the operation is successful in totally removing the cancer. There is a 10% mortality rate with this type of op and 60% of patients revert back to an almost normal life after approx 3 months. One thing is for sure, he cannot carry on the way he is right now so i can only pray that this works out for him.

Just need to sort my mom out now. That is Wednesday's job.

Thanks again everyone for your kind thoughts and advice.

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Jo. xx