Paphos People

From the following quote it sounds like the cause is still being pursued through Brussels .

" As we have previously advised you, the current temperature criteria does not comply with the fundamental principle of proportionality.

We laid a formal complaint before the Commission from the very introduction of the temperature criteria and since that time our fellow expats in France have made a similar representation.

The last communication we received from the Commission was in May 2015 when we were advised that the Commission services were considering the legitimacy of the temperature criteria. Our fellow expats in France received a similar response at that time.

We consider we have now given the Commission ample opportunity to consider this matter, although we are well used to such delays from Brussels.

On 23 November 2015 we sent a ‘chase-up’ letter, although to date we have not received a reply.

Since all the institutions of the EU are bound by a code of good behaviour, which includes promptly responded to legal persons or otherwise, we will shortly be considering a complaint to the European Ombudsman.

We want to assure you all that a great deal of research has been carried out by ourselves and our opposite numbers in France, which not only fully support our petition, it also reveals the dishonesty employed by the DWP when arriving at their conclusions so as to justify the current temperature criteria . "

Who are you quoting Number 6?
Geoff.

I would just loved to have got my OAP pension from the government that I should have got 3 years ago. Only just over a year to wait now, don't think I will be complaining about loss of the winter fuel allowance.

You should complain. Two wrongs don't make a right. It is downright discrimination when OAPs/Over 60s in UK still receive the WFA. We all paid in for it, and residing in another EU Member State means we should still receive it.
Geoff.

The UK gov, no matter which party are in couldn't give a damn about the general public. As long as they and there cronies are okay that's all that matters.
No two wrongs don't make a right, why don't they just cancel the WInter fuel allowance for everyone. Just think of the savings they would make.

Sorry Geoff , I forgot to put the link in .

http://www.cyprusexpat.co.uk/blog/read/ ... E.facebook

People forget why the WFA was introduced , it was brought in because the basic UK state pension is so low , and it was an easy way to bump it up a little . They called it the winter fuel allowance to encourage older people to spend it on keeping warm . But the actual wording says pensioners can spend it on whatever they want .

We are happy to receive the WFA in the uk and we were pleased to get it in Cyprus when we lived there as it was just as cold and damp in winter as it is here in the UK.
My opinion is that it should be means tested so that those who need it most do get it.After all Richard Branson etc all get it and they certainly don't need it.
One thing I will say though,is that those living in Cyprus save a thousand pounds a year plus in council tax which more than makes up for the loss of WFA. We now pay a thousand a year council tax against 137 euros in Pegeia.

I agree Beverley. Well said.

I don't really see what council tax payments have to do with the issue. The fact is that this payment has been denied UK state pension earners ( and we did earn it) who live in certain parts of the world irrespective of the weather conditions or circumstances of the individual pensioner and if it was means tested then I am sure many ex pats here in Cyprus would qualify since their incomes are made up entirely of state pension. I don't remember reading that free bus and train travel for O.A.P.s is means tested nor other 'benefits' such as store and restaurant discounts which are available in the UK irrespective of the weather. The simple fact is that Ian Duncan Smith is a mean minded, petty politician with little or no compassion for anyone and unfortunately this nasty little man has many allies within the Conservative party. However living under a UK democracy does mean that you get what you vote for especially in a 'first past the post' election. So thanks not only to I.D.S. but also to everyone who voted Conservative at the last election resulting in a very unhappy new year for many, many people since from what I have heard and read about the Universal Credit System of benefits being put in place in the UK it will bring unjustifiable misery and sheer poverty to lots of ordinary people who do not deserve to carry the can for the Tory's soft approach towards taxing the banks and pulling them into line many of whom managed to avoid paying one penny tax during 2014 - disgraceful politicians who should be ashamed of themselves.

Just as they can with their pension money.
Thanks for the link.
Geoff.

well said geoffandmolly

I guess I look at it totally differently than some of you....

Our government pensions are a given right even though they've changed the goal posts for some of those born in the 1950s.

On the other hand the WFA was for cold weather payments in the UK (UK being the operative word).

We all made our choice whether to stay in UK or move to an island in the Med where the sun shines most of the time, the summers are long and winters can be cold but much shorter than those in UK.

Making the choice to move out of UK to me means there are certain things/benefits which go with that status we will lose out on - family credit, job seekers allowance, child benefit, free bus passes and television licences. Also the WFA....

Personally, I would much rather have my pension which I should have been entitled to at 60yrs of age but will now have to wait until I'm 66 instead.

The WFA is small fry in comparison. If I was so desperate for the small amount of money it offers, I would pack up and head back to UK because quite frankly it tells me I made a really bad decision and should never have made the move to live in Cyprus in the first place...

Honestly, is there anyone here who can hold their hands up and say "I really need that extra cash to pay my winter bills"?

_________________
Regards
Shell

A contentious subject and probably an unpopular view Shell but one I actually agree with.....these benifits are paid for by those in work today....and the sheer scale of the outlay demands reforms to be made in all areas....I actually feel that the Government have applied the requirements for WFA in the fairest way it could...the "Average Temperature Test" is fair...it may not seem so to some but let's face it one of the reasons we are all here is the favourable weather conditions.....if Pensioners living in Cyprus were entitled to a WFA should that not be funded under a Cypriot scheme?.....what is good for the goose is good for the gander....Straying into Government State Pensions, they are in a state of flux, there are a number of factors that have conspired to create a difficult situation for many...but changes had to be made.....people are living longer and equality between the sexes was demanded by the majority. The line had to be drawn somewhere I am afraid. We came here prior to State retirement age...the plan being my wife would qualify at 60 for her state pension...before I did.....I now qualify at 67....before her.....and adding a considerable amount of years onto our need to purchase Private Health Insurance.

I would agree with Shell's analysis, if either the UK or Cyprus was not an EU Member State.
However, both are.
Under EU rules the UK Govt eventually had to pay us WFA here - note eventually, they tried to
wriggle out of it at the time I recall. The EU rules, inter alia, said they must treat a person (UK citizen) here within the EU same as in the UK; by virtue of free movement rights etc.
It would have been politically unacceptable to withdraw WFA from all UK pensioners, so
they had to pay it here and elsewhere within the EU where we might decide to reside.
More recently the Tory Govt, in its relentless quest to cut costs at the expense of the poorest,
brought in this temperature criteria.
So a person. residing in Troodos (for example) should be able to still receive WFA. But
this was too messy to administer - which homes would qualify anywhere in EU which would not? -
so they simplified it by Country.
Over simplified - this is their problem. This temperature criteria is not being applied
in UK, those residing (e.g.) in Torquay should not qualify.
If properly challenged, as is the problem of delaying State Pensions to women born in the 1950s
is being challenged (see other thread), I am sure many in Cyprus would qualify for WFA to be re-instated.
Meantime some cheats reside here but have failed to inform the UK Authorities of their move.
and continue to receive the WFA.
If you know of such a person, and wish to report them, there are phone numbers
you can call.
These cheats don't just fiddle getting WFA, they also fiddle other "UK- only" benefits.
Geoff.

Well said shell. Some of us have lost a lot more than the winter fuel allowance.

... and some of us have gained a lot more by paying Cyprus Income Tax (and not to mention MUCH lower 'Council Tax')

So it's alright then in your book to get fleeced by the UK Government, who are only too happy to send copious taxpayer funds to dubious regimes, some with their own space programme?

Keep calm,grasp your ankles & await the inevitable!

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I'll be back!

No, it's not alright - but that is one of many reasons I'm pleased to live in Cyprus away from the UK

In that case Old twister it won't bother you when UK exits the EU, which now looks pretty certain.
It won't bother me either. We can always return to UK and cost them a fortune looking after us!
Geoff.

Someone posted the temperature test was fair ....Oh no it wasn't .

Ids faked the figures , he used winter as 5 months nov to march . One of The biggest concentration of Brit pensioners is France , so he added in the French colonies to get the average temp up .

Shell mentioned WFA should be for the UK only , but you can still claim it if you live in over 20 countries in the EU .

I agree the amount is small change compared to the change in pension age robbery .

But we should all stick together and not let the government get away with any of it .

Well said Number 6 Some of them are correct on here when they say the WFA is "small change", but then they are shelling out money like mad to "refugees", of which many are nothing of the kind. No, we were the "easy option". I wonder how much money has been spent on all the missiles, rockets, bombs etc already used in Syria by the British Government? Now that figure will have already made the WFA being "saved" by them as real peanuts!!

In other words IDS jipped us!

Geoff.

The mean temperature test was based on the warmest average winter temperature in the UK, which happen to be the South West.....nothing to to do with French Colonies....you will note that those expats living in France do not qualify either.....and yes you can claim if you live in other EU countries whose average winter temperature is lower than the UK's.....we happen to live in Cyprus and we benefit from a more temperate climate....

I should have explained better why I mentioned the French colonies . I lived in France for 4 years and each winter we used to get minus 10 and lower . So France was one country where British pensioners deserved to keep the WFA . But IDS decided to include the French colonies to get the average temperature up and therefore exclude them . Just an example of what we are up against .

I hope the EU in Brussels gets Britain back in line and resume the WFA to all . Some people say EU has no say , but don't forget it was the EU that made the UK pay it to us ...for a short period .
And some say the UK will come out of the EU , but I do not believe they will .

And yes I am a realist and realise if you going to base WFA on a temperature test , we here in CY do not deserve to get it . But as I said earlier WFA was brought in because the state pension in the UK is too low , so all pensioners deserve to get it no matter where they live . Why should my pension be reduced because IDS dreamed up some scheme .

Yes, the mighty EU again. And whilst many may not want to hear it, it is the EU which has forced the pension amendments through too, against what both Tory and Socialist governments wanted. Equality at any cost was their aim.

HI I very rarely get involved with anything political or religious but felt I would make an exception in this discussion, in my opinion we have been robbed by the present British government. my family have lived, been born and died in the uk for many generations paid our tax and national insurance as have many of the expats living here and other parts of the world, most of us paid into the uk national insurance scheme because we had no choice moneys were taken from our wage packets or earnings with the threat of imprisonment or fine if you did not pay, it seems to me the uk government has reneged on its commitment to pay and should if not pay out as per the agreement made when we were forced to sign up, at least return the percentage of premiums paid in as in the case of the banks and the P.P.I scandal, this applies to both the w.f.a and pensions, if this had been a private company I am sure they would now be in court as I am sure that so called moving the goal post so that they can keep more of your hard earned income would be illegal.

Benefits and the eligibility for those benefits change all the time.....I am sur that when you started paying NI there was no such thing as WFA..and the same goes for many other benefits. Whilst I, you and many others were working we weren't paying into some huge pension/benefits pot in order to fund our retirement we were supporting those retired or on benefits at the time. Nothing has changed, those in work are supporting us....trouble is there are many more of us now, we are living longer and things cost more....economies have to be made and whilst WFA is a drop in the ocean it is but one of a number of measures that have had to be made in order to try and balance the books and provide for those who really need it....The trouble is benefits are now seen as a right...they are not....a criteria for WFA has been put in place, if you meet that criteria, as most do in the UK (there are exceptions), then you are entitled...if you don't then you are not, we in Cyprus, with our favourable weather conditions do not....is it fair that you get WFA and your Cypriot neighbour doesn't ? If there were a Cypriot WFA, and as an expat you met the conditions I expect you would receive it....

Mr Web told The Telegraph: “The law refers to the state pension as a benefit and has done since the war."



So be careful , the next benefit the government takes off us here in sunny Cyprus could be the state pension .

Exactly. Then what will those on here who say we should not get the WFA have to say I wonder.
Some of whome still get WFA because they have not told DWP of their change in Country of main residence.
Geoff.

Absolute rubbish!! So why doesn't the British Government change the benefits to the benefits to many of those scrounging so called refugees who refuse to work, refuse to acknowledge our patron saints days, refuse to accept that when in Britain it is NOT their right to change it to their countries ways etc.etc. We ruddy well did pay into the system, and in my case for 47 years, so I do expect a fair return on my money, and that INCLUDES the WFA. As for your ridiculous comment of "is it fair that you get WFA and your Cypriot neighbour doesn't?" why should they if they haven't lived in Britain and therefore not paid into the system there? What planet are you on for goodness sake?

"Refugees" or Asylum Seekers to give them their official title/name receive the following:

New asylum seekers in the UK get vouchers for food and essentials. A young, single person gets £19 a week, a couple gets £47 per week and extra for children. They also get £10 cash a week. The total amount of money and vouchers asylum seekers can get is 70 per cent of what someone on income support would receive. (Taken from the UK Gov website - just Google it, it's not that hard to find).

Asylum seekers are not "allowed" to work until a decision is made upon their application for asylum which can take years. They're not allocated an NI number either....

_________________
Regards
Shell

yes Wavy Dave you paid into a system that supported those on Benefits at the time not into any mythical pot of gold, and it is workers today supporting you.....and why should they fork out for a benefit you don't need? I do believe at one time there was a Cypriot equivalent to WFA, which was paid if you lived above a certain height......seems fair to me and as a retired expat living in Cyprus perhaps it would be available to you under a reciprocal agreement provided you met the same conditions. Bottom line is that we in Cyprus do not meet the criteria applied to the UK funded WFA, many in the EU do, live with it and stop winging or move back to the UK or a EU country where you can get it.....and this has nothing to do with refugees or immigrants....which always seems to be the fall back option to blame for some...

_________________
Regards
Shell

Yes, and it was me, when I worked for 47 years that supported, and quite rightly so, those who had already retired. Also, for someone like you, your standard quote is "move back to the UK"! Incidentally, what right have you to say I don't need the WFA. How would you know one way or the other?

Actually Cypriot pensioners get a double pension in December (for the whole month) which works out at far more than the WFA.

I thought the UK government pension is paid every 4 weeks, which means effectively British pensioners receive the equivalent of a 13th payment per year in any event.

_________________
Regards
Shell

Wavy Dave, look I am not being insensitive...but certainly one of the main reasons we moved here was the weather...which is much more temperate than the UK...yes it gets cold but for a much shorter period of time than the UK...I use Calor Gas to heat the house..2 bottles approximately every two or three weeks, that's about €22, over our "winter" period that works out at about €150....let's face it our winter (I would suggest) is from the beginning of December to the beginning of March, you just cannot compare it to the UK....
As far as I know I have never suggested "moving back to the UK" to anyone before..but in my view, Financial, Health and Family are probably the 3 main reasons I personally would return...
And yes CWB's, the U.K. State pension is indeed paid every 4 weeks...effectively 13 payments per year.

The annual state pension divided by 13. Total is the same. You can opt to be paid weekly,
total paid each year is still the same.
Geoff.

Brits will always be Brits, no matter where we live!

So I think the backlash about the WFA is more to do with a principle than the actual amount involved - I know it is for me.

These government 'wide boys' think the British general public don't have the brains to spot a con when they encounter one.

If we had never been allotted this allowance, would we be angry, I don't think so. The main reason is we have been given something we regarded as a bit of a perk (not as it was, a sop), which has now been taken away by virtue of a ruse concocted by the 'wets' in government.

What we should really be angry about is the dismal level of pension payments after a life of work & contribution to the state coffers, especially (as I said earlier) when such huge sums are foolishly donated to largely undeserving countries & despot regimes.
This view is compounded by the appearance that this is done as some sort of game, with the target of actually giving the money away being the primary objective, irrespective of any justifiable reason for doing so.

The pathetic & delayed government reaction to the serious flooding recently amply displays the total lack of concern by the government for their own people, particularly those in the North. No doubt Cameron would have kicked-ass if that had happened in London, or his constituency.

If you don't agree, ask yourself why it is the UK foreign aid contribution is in the top five of European donations & the British pension only 64th. in the pension league table?

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I'll be back!

Spot on!
Geoff.

Really cannot understand the moaning minnies on here.

Moan about being in Cyprus with the corruption
Moan about the driving
Moan the shops open on Sunday (or not).

Moan about anything that just about scratches their skin.

For God's sake just live your lives to the full. Enjoy every day and smile at the world.

We're talking £200 a year here. You moaning lot have saved more than that in tax by living in Cyprus.

I had a friend, until October who was a sportsman, last October he was diagnosed with a brain tumour, he lasted a year. He did so much in that year to be happy, smile and be a top bloke. ( He was 41 when he died)

Smile you lot, today might be your last!!!

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Age improves with good wine

Bravo Nev/

Top Gun you are probably right in your perception that the problem here is the principal, but I would suggest you are also correct that WFA was a "bit of a perk" and Now, rightly so it has been taken away..and I think you will probably find the majority of the British Public are quite happy with the criteria for WFA....Of course everyone would like bigger pensions...but it is what is affordable...and whilst the UK fair badly in European Pension League Tables, these figures are obtained as a percentage of a countries average wage...whilst some places rank much higher in regard to that percentage the average wage is much lower than the UK...and look at the state of Greece and even Cyprus where pensions were at almost 100% of wages.....they became simply unaffordable, impossible to maintain and contributed to a financial collapse...and they are not alone...
You are not alone in lamenting the extraordinary amount of funding the UK sends abroad..yes more could and should be done on supporting the home base, but I for one am still am extreamly proud of what our country does for others...I too wish it was targeted better. The recent floods are of course tragic but another demonstration of the sheer force of nature...plans and defences were in place but were overwealmed..I actually believe that the authorities, emergency and the Armed services responded magnificently....hindsight is a wonderful gift...and in hindsight much more needs to be spent on flood defences...the Netherlands spends billions every year....but that comes at a financial cost which we must be prepared to pay...

If it was a "bit of a perk" for us pensioners here, then it remains a "bit of a perk" for
pensioners in the UK now.
What is the difference between pensioners here living in the mountains, and pensioners
living in Torquay?
Answers on a postcard please to IDS (I'm damned stupid), House of Commons, London W1
Geoff.

Bloody good post Jimmy



Bloody good post Big Nev

Couldn't agree with you more, Big Nev. People lose sight of the important things in life: good health, the love of family, kids, grandkids and the sheer joy of nature. They spend all their time worrying about day to day trivialities. As I've observed before, some people are never happy unless they're unhappy.

This link is a reminder to treasure the things which really matter: https://player.vimeo.com/video/89476173 Click on the picture to start the video.

And you can put your hand on your heart and say the British who live in Britain don't moan? You're having a laugh. Anyone can talk about people who have not lived to a great age(my own daughter only lived to four and half years), but don't use that as a lever to have a go at us in Cyprus.

Well said Topgun,

To suggest that anyone on here who is annoyed or upset by the discontinuation of WFA
in Cyprus is a moaning Minnie is ridiculous. We are not all tarred with the same brush.
We love life, live it to the full, and will die happy in the sun.
The issue is one of fairness.
If they pay WFA, under certain criteria, to pensioners residing in the UK, then they should
pay WFA to pensioners living by choice in Cyprus who meet the same criteria.
Imagine the rumpus there would be if they said WFA will be now paid to all pensioners
living north of the Watford Gap, but to no pensioner living south of the Watford Gap.
Believe me with the present UK Government WFA is the thin edge of the wedge.
Pension payments might be next on their target list!
I gest not.
Geoff.

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All things are possible