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 Post subject: Education policies ...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:01 pm 
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As a former school headmaster I am appalled about the recent policy which has been announced, seemingly having been drafted on the back of an envelope after a night at the pub. What on earth is the government thinking about?

I'll put my cards on the table. I have voted Conservative since 1969, when I became eligible to vote. My schooling in the late 1950s and 1960s was at a time when there was a seeming rush to abolish successful schools (grammar schools and then in the 1970s Direct Grant Schools). It appeared that the establishment wished to embrace the "lowest common denominator" in education. Lower the bar and all would be successful. In the 1960s there were both 'O' levels for the more academic and later CSEs for the less academic. 'A' levels and university were designed for the top 10% or perhaps the top 15% of the population.

It was not the best system but it was far, far better than the gallop to comprehensive education that followed. All would be equal and there would be no privileges. What utter rubbish. Schools became selective by post code and the middle classes did whatever needed to be done to escape their children being entombed in some "bog standard" comprehensive. You just need to look at the catchment area of Holland Park School in London to see what the inevitable results of this became.

Public schools became more expensive but it did not seem to matter to the aspiring middle classes who wanted what they considered to be the best for their children. When I left Winchester College in 1969 the fees were £640 a year. By the time my younger brother joined the school the following year the fees were £640 a term. Inflation. Ye Gods. Grammar schools became rarer and then the demise of the Direct Grant schools. Those in prosperous areas became fully independent and those in poorer areas had to become comprehensive. So in those areas where they were most needed, they disappeared.

In the late 1970s someone came up with the bright idea (in my opinion) to give a voucher to the value of their child's education. I believe it was calculated that to educate a child in the state sector was something like £9600 a year and it only cost about £9800 a year for the independent sector. Equality at a stroke. Every parent would have a voucher to choose the school of their choice (subject to entry requirements for the more academic schools) and those schools that were unpopular would wither and die, whilst the more successful and popular schools would thrive and expand.

There might have been all sorts of teething troubles in the early years, but here was equality for all. No state funding of schools at all, just market forces deciding the fate of schools. It never happened but I see the idea being suggested in the letters' column of newspapers today.

To remove charitable status from independent schools would be a disaster. The schools would adjust by cancelling all the bursaries and scholarships they currently offer to less advantaged children and become even more financially exclusive. Thousands of children (perhaps more than that) would be priced out of the independent sector and add to the pressure on the state sector. It must also be remembered that all of these parents pay their taxes to support state education, and then pay again out of taxed income to pay fees (and at the same time this reduces the pressure on state schools) and the government wants to tax these schools again in the name of equality.

I hatched a plan at my school (one of the leading schools in the South-east of England) to provide scholarships and bursaries to pupils currently in state primary schools. If I remember correctly there were to be nine places offered in every year and the criterion was to be that the successful children would benefit the school and would be benefited by the school in equal measure. When I took this to the governors (and it would cost tens of thousands of pounds every year) they were incredulous but finally agreed it. The benefit to the school and the locality was enormous.

And so ... Theresa May ... get a grip and perhaps you might care to read a book by Melanie Phillips called "All Must Have Prizes" and you might find out what is wrong with the state sector of education. Thanks heavens I don't vote in UK elections any more. There is not one party I could vote for.

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Last edited by MacManiac on Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:09 pm 
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What relevance does this have to Paphos?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:15 pm 
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MacManiac wrote:
As a former school headmaster I am appalled about the recent policy which has been announced, seemingly having been drafted on the back of an envelope after a night at the pub. What on earth are the government thinking about?

I'll put my cards on the table. I have voted Conservative since 1969, when I became eligible to vote. My schooling in the late 1950s and 1960s was at a time when there was a seeming rush to abolish successful schools (grammar schools and then in the 1970s Direct Grant Schools). It appeared that the establishment wished to embrace the "lowest common denominator" in education. Lower the bar and all would be successful. In the 1960s there were both 'O' levels for the more academic and later CSEs for the less academic. 'A' levels and university were designed for the top 10% or perhaps the top 15% of the population.

It was not the best system but it was far, far better than the gallop to comprehensive education that followed. All would be equal and there would be no privileges. What utter rubbish. Schools became selective by post code and the middle classes did whatever needed to be done to escape their children being entombed in some "bog standard" comprehensive. You just need to look at the catchment area of Holland Park School in London to see what the inevitable results of this became.

Public schools became more expensive but it did not seem to matter to the aspiring middle classes who wanted what they considered to be the best for their children. When I left Winchester College in 1969 the fees were £640 a year. By the time my younger brother joined the school the following year the fees were £640 a term. Inflation. Ye Gods. Grammar schools became rarer and then the demise of the Direct Grant schools. Those in prosperous areas became fully independent and those in poorer areas had to become comprehensive. So in those areas where they were most needed, they disappeared.

In the late 1970s someone came up with the bright idea (in my opinion) to give a voucher to the value of their child's education. I believe it was calculated that to educate a child in the state sector was something like £9600 a year and it only cost about £9800 a year for the independent sector. Equality at a stroke. Every parent would have a voucher to choose the school of their choice (subject to entry requirements for the more academic schools) and those schools that were unpopular would wither and die, whilst the more successful and popular schools would thrive and expand.

There might have been all sorts of teething troubles in the early years, but here was equality for all. No state funding of schools at all, just market forces deciding the fate of schools. It never happened but I see the idea being suggested in the letters' column of newspapers today.

To remove charitable status from independent schools would be a disaster. The schools would adjust by cancelling all the bursaries and scholarships they currently offer to less advantaged children and become even more financially exclusive. Thousands of children (perhaps more than that) would be priced out of the independent sector and add to the pressure on the state sector. It must also be remembered that all of these parents pay their taxes to support state education, and then pay again out of taxed income to pay fees (and at the same time this reduces the pressure on state schools) and the government wants to tax these schools again in the name of equality.

I hatched a plan at my school (one of the leading schools in the South-east of England) to provide scholarships and bursaries to pupils currently in state primary schools. If I remember correctly there were to be nine places offered in every year and the criterion was to be that the successful children would benefit the school and would be benefited by the school in equal measure. When I took this to the governors (and it would cost tens of thousands of pounds every year) they were incredulous but finally agreed it. The benefit to the school and the locality was enormous.

And so ... Theresa May ... get a grip and perhaps you might care to read a book by Melanie Phillips called "All Must Have Prizes" and you might find out what is wrong with the state sector of education. Thanks heavens I don't vote in UK elections any more. There is not one party I could vote for.

I agree that no political party is 'up to scratch'.
As an ex-grammar pupil I agree with the basics of your post.
Education has been going down hill for nearly fifty years.
Putting pupils in classes of mixed abilities only restricts the academics ..... and does little for those of lesser mental abilities (who would be more attuned to working with their hands rather than their brains only)
This is not fair to any pupil. It does not give a 'level playing field'. The idea of not letting anyone feel that they are 'failure' is, in itself, a failure. They will possibly encounter 'failure' in later life ... and will not know how to cope with it.
There are many 'brainy academics' who would be useless when given a manual task to perform. They are not 'superior' ... just 'of different capability'. We need different occupations, manual & academic, between us, to thrive.
All pupils should be given the facilities to 'shine' in their capabilities. Grammar and Technical Schools would be more appropriate.
Private schools ? O.K. ... but they should be overseen by the same Educational Authority. They do not always have a better standard than some in the public sector. However the benefit the pupils have there seems to be in later life ( i.e. Who you know ... not what you know/do not know ... just subject to your finances and 'connections' ). That 'preferential treatment' must also be addressed.
Only one more amendment ... Remove all religious studies ...They can be studied in the privacy of there own homes. Religion does not mix with politics or education ( A mixture of which is the source of war).


Last edited by SFD on Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:24 pm 
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zorbathejock wrote:
What relevance does this have to Paphos?

If you are British ?
You may have family that you care for in the UK.
There are also Cypriots here, who have families in the UK and are concerned about their education.
However, this does not account for any system the SNP use in Scotland !


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:44 pm 
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My son finished university last year, my daughter is about to start her second year at university.

I didn't get involved in buying a house in a particular post code area to get into a particular school's catchment area. My children didn't go to an independent school or to a grammar school.

They both went to the nearest comprehensive and they have both done very well, with great results at GCSE and at A Level, and in the case of my son's degree.

Not all is bad with the UKs educational system.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:43 pm 
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zorbathejock wrote:
What relevance does this have to Paphos?


We're in the "Political" section of the forum here. Are you telling me posts should only be related to the politics of Paphos?

If so, then please explain why this section is not filled with umpteen different threads....

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:47 pm 
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I blame those Knuckle draggers...how about you Mac?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Fylde Filly wrote:
zorbathejock wrote:
What relevance does this have to Paphos?


We're in the "Political" section of the forum here. Are you telling me posts should only be related to the politics of Paphos?

If so, then please explain why this section is not filled with umpteen different threads....


If it were related only to Paphos there obviously wouldn't be umpteen different threads. However I find it odd that in a forum called Paphos People there should be a post about something which is applicable only to England. Electors in England have the opportunity to agree or disagree with this policy at elections. We elected to leave the country.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:53 pm 
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Not everybody has left the country though (as in UK) - a good many folks living in Cyprus do so only on a part-time basis ;) And remember, some also head back home for medical treatments, prescriptions etc under the good old British National Health system when it suits them....

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:33 am 
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zorbathejock wrote:
What relevance does this have to Paphos?


I wasn't aware that you were the arbiter for what is or is not allowed to be discussed on this forum. The future of the UK and its schools and people are surely of interest to British expats in Cyprus. Presumably, using this logic, the BREXIT threads are equally irrelevant as are threads dealing with Scottish independence.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:35 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
I blame those Knuckle draggers...how about you Mac?


A little below the belt but you never know. The whole episode strikes me as class envy of the worst sort. Does Theresa May have an inbuilt inferiority complex because she was "only" educated at a grammar school and has therefore had to dispatch all those dreadful public school boys into detention ... or should that be exile?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:50 am 
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I think one of the saddest thing is the total erosion of educational standards in the UK. 'A' levels and university education were not designed for everybody, and traditional university places were for perhaps the top 10% of the population. It is a con trick of enormous proportions to expand the university population to 50% by subliminally suggesting that our marvellous comprehensive system of education has raised educational achievement so far since the 1960s.

We now have thousands of people who went to "uni" who end up flipping burgers or delivering pizza - worthy jobs but not needing a university education. Of course the revolution in the workplace has meant that "hewers of wood and drawers of water" are no long required in the vast numbers they once were. Computerisation and mechanisation and robots have removed and will continue to remove employment opportunities to millions.

These matters should be concerning the government. I cannot imagine the insecurity people on zero hours' contracts must feel, or those condemned to living on sink estates with their benefits being reduced. These matters do matter and the threats to private education will not make an iota of difference to people outside of the system.

The UK is on the precipice - not just because of BREXIT - but playing at ostriches will not help. A national debate needs to be held where these and other real matters are discussed, and this is where the future of our country lies. At the moment the dash for the past, that mythical golden age, is just tinkering at the edges. Clarity of vision, and courage, and drive, and determination are what is needed for a Prime Minister (of whichever party) to try and take the UK into the future. Sticking plasters are not going to work - wholesale surgery is the answer.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:48 am 
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MacManiac wrote:
I think one of the saddest thing is the total erosion of educational standards in the UK. 'A' levels and university education were not designed for everybody, and traditional university places were for perhaps the top 10% of the population. It is a con trick of enormous proportions to expand the university population to 50% by subliminally suggesting that our marvellous comprehensive system of education has raised educational achievement so far since the 1960s.

We now have thousands of people who went to "uni" who end up flipping burgers or delivering pizza - worthy jobs but not needing a university education. Of course the revolution in the workplace has meant that "hewers of wood and drawers of water" are no long required in the vast numbers they once were. Computerisation and mechanisation and robots have removed and will continue to remove employment opportunities to millions.

These matters should be concerning the government. I cannot imagine the insecurity people on zero hours' contracts must feel, or those condemned to living on sink estates with their benefits being reduced. These matters do matter and the threats to private education will not make an iota of difference to people outside of the system.

The UK is on the precipice - not just because of BREXIT - but playing at ostriches will not help. A national debate needs to be held where these and other real matters are discussed, and this is where the future of our country lies. At the moment the dash for the past, that mythical golden age, is just tinkering at the edges. Clarity of vision, and courage, and drive, and determination are what is needed for a Prime Minister (of whichever party) to try and take the UK into the future. Sticking plasters are not going to work - wholesale surgery is the answer.


Excellent post. :agree
Bringing back Grammar Schools and selection is a good first step.
The educational experts of the 1960s got it totally wrong with their one size fits all
Comprehensive Schools policy.
Things were made worse by allowing those with only a few GCSEs to become mainstream teachers.
Time indeed to wind the educational clock back and get standards up again, including proper
annual performance assessments of all teachers.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:52 am 
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MacManiac. Re. your post including " Sticking plasters are not going to work - wholesale surgery is the answer."
I agree.
However, some ideas from the past (e.g. Grammar Schools and Technical Colleges ) would be able to help redress nearly 50 years of 'dumbing down'.
Education should be tailored to capabilities .... an 'Einstein, Christopher Wren, Christian Barnard or John Constable' would not have much chance to excel in a 'mixed, free-for-all' classroom). .......no matter how nice and PC the 'luvvies' think that they should be in one class. :doh


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:30 pm 
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SFD wrote:
MacManiac. Re. your post including " Sticking plasters are not going to work - wholesale surgery is the answer."
I agree.
However, some ideas from the past (e.g. Grammar Schools and Technical Colleges ) would be able to help redress nearly 50 years of 'dumbing down'.
Education should be tailored to capabilities .... an 'Einstein, Christopher Wren, Christian Barnard or John Constable' would not have much chance to excel in a 'mixed, free-for-all' classroom). .......no matter how nice and PC the 'luvvies' think that they should be in one class. :doh


Dead right SFD! As I said in my earlier post one size does not fit all.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:50 pm 
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So Mac, which bit upsets you? The suggestion that private Schools would loose their charitable status...something I have never agreed with..dishing out a few burseries to salve the soul never seemed quite right to me...or the reintroduction of Grammers...which fills the gap between those that can afford and those that can't...nothing against private schools...and good luck to those that can afford them....but a charity.....not a chance..so a Grammer for those bright kids who earn the right....not just afford the right...seems to me to be a good thing...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
So Mac, which bit upsets you? The suggestion that private Schools would loose their charitable status...something I have never agreed with..dishing out a few burseries to salve the soul never seemed quite right to me...or the reintroduction of Grammers...which fills the gap between those that can afford and those that can't...nothing against private schools...and good luck to those that can afford them....but a charity.....not a chance..so a Grammer for those bright kids who earn the right....not just afford the right...seems to me to be a good thing...


Jimmy, don't forget they have selection NOW in UK. House prices - the better the schools
the higher the house prices.
Much better to have selection based on merit/ability/measurable potential, like the
11+ exam did.
Those with plenty of money, or prepared to make financial sacrifices (like no holidays, no smoking, no eating out), can go one better and send their kids to private schools - like my parents did, and I passed the 11+, but I also had to pass the Common Entrance Exam to get a place. When I went to private (Public) school they didn't want rich dumbos.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:04 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:
Jimmy wrote:
So Mac, which bit upsets you? The suggestion that private Schools would loose their charitable status...something I have never agreed with..dishing out a few burseries to salve the soul never seemed quite right to me...or the reintroduction of Grammers...which fills the gap between those that can afford and those that can't...nothing against private schools...and good luck to those that can afford them....but a charity.....not a chance..so a Grammer for those bright kids who earn the right....not just afford the right...seems to me to be a good thing...


Jimmy, don't forget they have selection NOW in UK. House prices - the better the schools
the higher the house prices.
Much better to have selection based on merit/ability/measurable potential, like the
11+ exam did.
Those with plenty of money, or prepared to make financial sacrifices (like no holidays, no smoking, no eating out), can go one better and send their kids to private schools - like my parents did, and I passed the 11+, but I also had to pass the Common Entrance Exam to get a place. When I went to private (Public) school they didn't want rich dumbos.
Geoff.


Where did it all go wrong Geoff? :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Oh please Geoff...do not regurgitate the stuff you hear in the news....of course the better schools attract themore affluent and push up house prices..but that is life...and I am in favour of an 11+ type exam..and of course the Private Schools are selective and have exams...but money speaks....kid fails exam...daddy puts a bit more money on the table...kid gets in...and whilst Mac may be outraged...it's a truism....


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:23 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
Oh please Geoff...do not regurgitate the stuff you hear in the news....of course the better schools attract themore affluent and push up house prices..but that is life...and I am in favour of an 11+ type exam..and of course the Private Schools are selective and have exams...but money speaks....kid fails exam...daddy puts a bit more money on the table...kid gets in...and whilst Mac may be outraged...it's a truism....


And not only that Jimmy, middle-class parents pay for additional tuition to get their kids through the 11 plus. Distorts the playing field. And those kids from middle class parents who fail to get into grammar school .. well their parents would be devastated at little Jonnie mixing with the oiks at the local comprehensive, so they cough up the readies to send him to independent school. End result comprehensives end up being in a downward spiral.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:42 pm 
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So the Comprensives adapt and teach life skills and what the kids need to know....in addition and above the 3 R's....one size has never fitted all...and the Germans realised this with their education system...teach the basics and then move on...apprenticeships.....farming...IT....not everyone needs to speak a foreign language...or Latin...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:55 pm 
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As I posted higher up this thread, my two kids went to comprensive school, and it did them no harm at all. Grammar school wasn't really an option until my daughter passed her GCSEs and was offered a place in the 6th form at Pates in Cheltenham ( you may know it). She chose instead to go to the local 6th form college ... 2 years later: A* A* A B. She didn't do to bad despite not having loads of money lavished on her education. Now at Leeds Uni.

Oh, and by the way, she speaks French and Spanish fluently :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
So Mac, which bit upsets you? The suggestion that private Schools would loose their charitable status...something I have never agreed with..dishing out a few burseries to salve the soul never seemed quite right to me...or the reintroduction of Grammers...which fills the gap between those that can afford and those that can't...nothing against private schools...and good luck to those that can afford them....but a charity.....not a chance..so a Grammer for those bright kids who earn the right....not just afford the right...seems to me to be a good thing...


The whole situation upsets me as whatever the government does it will not address the fundamental issues. Many public and preparatory schools do far more than "dish out a few bursaries to salve the soul" and many enable bright children from impoverished backgrounds to succeed in ways they would never have done in the maelstrom of the state sector (and I am aware that some state schools are absolutely excellent).

Many schools began life hundreds of years ago as charitable institutions to enable the poor to access the professions and only changed during the 19th Century when education became a right and not a privilege. I suspect that many independent schools, which are not profit making institutions, put back as much as they take out of the system. If you do not have an intimate knowledge of independent school finances, and their philanthropic motives, you may not be able to fully understand their ethos. Forget the "flannelled fools and muddied oafs" and "Brideshead Revisited" view of public schools and privilege, totally ignore the Bullingdon Club oafs at Oxford (who were roundly pitied when I was at Oxford in the mid-1970s) and look at the wider picture.

Any schools who set out to help those from under-privileged homes should be praised, in my opinion, and not vilified. They are neither the problem not the solution to the nation's ills. They are a fact and have been for hundreds of years. Often considered to be some of the finest secondary schools in the world, they should not be punished for their excellence. That's rather like abolishing the grammar and direct grant schools in the 1960s and 1970s. As I have stated before, social class is the great determinant in academic success. Children with successful and educated parents always outperform those from less advantaged homes. Inarticulate parents breed inarticulate children. That's a fact. To penalise some of the best schools in the world is absolutely crazy. Perhaps give all parents a voucher to enable them to purchase the most appropriate education for their child would be a major step forward in bringing equality of opportunity for all. I trust that this not too pompous for you.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:08 pm 
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kato paphos wrote:
As I posted higher up this thread, my two kids went to comprensive school, and it did them no harm at all. Grammar school wasn't really an option until my daughter passed her GCSEs and was offered a place in the 6th form at Pates in Cheltenham ( you may know it). She chose instead to go to the local 6th form college ... 2 years later: A* A* A B. She didn't do to bad despite not having loads of money lavished on her education. Now at Leeds Uni.

Oh, and by the way, she speaks French and Spanish fluently :-)


"Non est qui faciat bonum"

I know Pates well and 6th form college can be an excellent option as well. My daughter did not really apply herself at school (not a model pupil like her father) and it was only 6th form college which gave her the independence and self-worth to succeed. Four 'A' grades at 'A' level and a first class degree at Cambridge reflected the worth of her 6th form college.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:25 pm 
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When I say 6th form college, I might not be using the correct terminology. My kids when to the nearest comprehsive, which didn't have a 6th form. So at 16 they had to change to another school, further away, which did have a 6th form. I thought they called their 6th form a college, but I'm not sure now. Farmors, again you might know it.

Either way, both schools were comprehensive. There wasn't a great deal of streaming prior to GCSE ... good ethos .. committed teachers ... good results in national tables. Not all comps are bad, and having a broad range of pupils from all backgrounds does not necessarily hold back the more academic, provided that there is a wide range of subjects on offer


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:55 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
So the Comprensives adapt and teach life skills and what the kids need to know....in addition and above the 3 R's....one size has never fitted all...and the Germans realised this with their education system...teach the basics and then move on...apprenticeships.....farming...IT....not everyone needs to speak a foreign language...or Latin...


In other words selection is a necessary part of any education system?
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:18 am 
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My former colleague, sparring partner and friend, Anthony Seldon wrote an interesting letter to The Telegraph today. He is, in my opinion, one of the greatest thinkers on education the UK has ever produced. I reproduce it below for your consideration.

Eton and Harrow do a great disservice to the independent school sector in Britain. This is not because of any intrinsic fault in them but because their prominence on the national stage has led to a belief that all independent schools are as rich and as strong.

No one thinks that all hotels are like The Savoy and The Ritz. Everyone understands that the sector also includes Novotels and Travelodges in the middle and cheap-but-cheerful B&B’s at the bottom. All can offer a good night’s sleep, but they are quite different.

For every Winchester, Wellington and Westminster among the independent schools, there are hundreds of others in towns like Bury, Bradford and Bolton, where students can and do achieve top grades, but the schools are operating on much tighter margins, and are charging fees a third or less of those at the very top.

Many independent schools are struggling to stay alive. Many have disappeared from the map north of Birmingham. Small, rural schools and those in less wealthy areas are finding life particularly hard.

Theresa May has said that independent schools can maintain charitable status only if they set up or sponsor state-run sister schools. Smaller private schools would have to send teachers to take lessons in state schools or be required to accept quotas of pupils who would otherwise be unable to afford fees. Mrs May believes very strongly that independent schools should be more fully involved in her crusade for greater social mobility.

The Prime Minister is right to want independent schools to play a more joined-up role in the national education system. For too long, leading independent school figures have argued private school autonomy would be eroded by engaging more with the state. I have always argued the opposite; that working with state schools more closely will not undermine, but help to guarantee their continued independence and existence.

The independent sector has been under the cosh for several years now. Its very success in achieving top grades and heavily disproportionate entry to top universities has aroused envy and ire among policymakers. Fees rising well above inflation and an improving state sector have also harmed the sector.

I believe that the independent sector will rise to the challenge that the Prime Minister has presented. But policymakers must remember and be prepared to celebrate the fact that the vast majority of public schools are already engaged in charitable outreach activities, not for fear of punishment from the Charity Commission, but because it is in their DNA to help.

Whitehall should equally remember that the vast majority of independent schools are not Etons and Harrows. If they are to work more closely with the state sector and to offer more opportunity to low-income pupils they need financial support and advice. If they are to set up academies, they need support from successful academy chains.

Mrs May has launched the biggest prime ministerial initiative on education since James Callaghan launched the great education debate (which led to the national curriculum, parent governors and school inspections) 40 years ago. She has nailed her colours to the mast of school reform.

Had the reforms that Callaghan initiated been successful over the last 40 years, Mrs May would not have to talk today about the continuing waste of talent in our schools among children from disadvantaged backgrounds. The rush to trash her ideas among other politicians and the education establishment is a shame. She is a serious and thoughtful politician and the agenda that she outlined merits close attention and respect.

No Prime Minister for many years has made such a strong and decisive start since taking office in their first two months, not Thatcher, not Major, not Blair. If Britain’s stagnant social mobility and the widening attainment gap in schools can be ameliorated, she will be remembered for far more than resolving Britain’s future in Europe.
 
*Sir Anthony Seldon, the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Buckingham, was master of Wellington College and head of Brighton College

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:48 am 
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MacManiac .... Good post quoting a thoughtful academic.
The problem occurs further along the system, though.
i.e. When Universities select from applicants. Preference for acceptance should not be allowed by previous attendance at particular establishments ... but only on academic capabilities. No more of the 'Old Boys Syndrome' !


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:05 am 
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SFD wrote:
MacManiac .... Good post quoting a thoughtful academic.
The problem occurs further along the system, though.
i.e. When Universities select from applicants. Preference for acceptance should not be allowed by previous attendance at particular establishments ... but only on academic capabilities. No more of the 'Old Boys Syndrome' !


I think the problem is more deep-seated than that. There is a trial going on at some universities of "blind applications" where the background and schooling of the candidate is not known to those making the decisions on entry. In theory it is fine but it may be a way of some form of reverse discrimination. There is also the suggestion that universities should make (disproportionate) allowance for the disadvantages some pupils have faced in their lives, and that these candidates with lower qualifications should be given priority.

This social engineering is abhorrent to me. No one should be penalised for their background, and that includes those fortunate enough to have been educated at schools were excellence is the norm, and so the level playing field so beloved of the social engineers can be perceived as a two-edged sword. It is said that cream will always rise to the top. Well that's not always the case and this is one of the reasons that supporters of independent and grammar schools move heaven and earth to ensure their children will succeed.

Parental aspiration (which is often cited to explain the relative success of some Asian children in the UK) is as important an issue as any other. Parental disengagement with education will have equal consequences for their children. Unfortunately the UK is suffering, and will continue to suffer, from the disastrous experiments with state education since the 1960s. As a very successful headmaster friend of mine who has just retired used to say, "More isn't better. Better is better." He was a South African whose country did not espouse the experimental nature of education in the 1960s and where excellence was expected - that, of course, relates to the white schools in that divided nation.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:36 pm 
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Meantime teachers in Cyprus are going on strilke tomorrow for one day.
These people are the best paid teachers in the EU, and work the least hours of any
teachers in the EU.
Why should the kids and their parents suffer because of these GREEDY people?
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:15 am 
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It would appear that not only the economy of the UK may have a bumpy road to follow. The groundswell of opinion in political circles seems to be very much against the PM's wish to reintroduce grammar schools. With a tiny parliamentary majority it would seem unlikely that the necessary legislation will get through the Commons, never mind the Lords.

The whole affair appears to show political naivety in the extreme. Whether this was promoted to take the eyes of the electorate away from the disaster that is Brexit is unclear. But the PM has backed this to the hilt and it will be a terrific blow if she fails to make it happen.

I can envisage a vote of "no confidence" in the near future, which of course will be defeated by MPs wanting to ensure that the gravy train is not derailed before 2020. What an unholy mess. Whether one supports the idea of grammar schools or not, whether universities and public schools should have to "sponsor" new schools or support failing ones, is increasingly irrelevant. As Bill Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid" and the UK economy is likely to find that the bumpy road leads to the edge of the cliff.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:18 pm 
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MacManiac wrote:
It would appear that not only the economy of the UK may have a bumpy road to follow. The groundswell of opinion in political circles seems to be very much against the PM's wish to reintroduce grammar schools. With a tiny parliamentary majority it would seem unlikely that the necessary legislation will get through the Commons, never mind the Lords.

The whole affair appears to show political naivety in the extreme. Whether this was promoted to take the eyes of the electorate away from the disaster that is Brexit is unclear. But the PM has backed this to the hilt and it will be a terrific blow if she fails to make it happen.

I can envisage a vote of "no confidence" in the near future, which of course will be defeated by MPs wanting to ensure that the gravy train is not derailed before 2020. What an unholy mess. Whether one supports the idea of grammar schools or not, whether universities and public schools should have to "sponsor" new schools or support failing ones, is increasingly irrelevant. As Bill Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid" and the UK economy is likely to find that the bumpy road leads to the edge of the cliff.


The groundswell amongst the public is the opposites of that within the Political circles - the public
like Grammar Schools and want more of them + selection at age 11.
If the MPs want to properly represent what their constituents want they will get behind the
Govt's proposals.
Sod what the Unions want!
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:17 am 
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From my understanding of the situation, there is both support and vehement opposition to the idea of more grammar schools. What the unions want is irrelevant, although it could be argued that the views of the professionals should count for something.

However throwing money at the situation is crazy with the current and future likely state of the UK economy. By all means have selection at existing schools, if that is what is required, but you cannot countenance building bright, shiny schools which are just going to siphon money from the education budget. It's rather like the housing developers baying for permission to erode the Green Belt when there are so many "Brownfield" sites which could be developed at a lower cost.

I am at a complete loss to understand the political process at the moment. Talk about fiddling whilst Rome burns, the government gives the impression that it is rudderless and the so-called negotiations to leave the EU remind me of an "open mike" night at the local pub. Never mind that "the people have spoken", the next few years will be painful and possibly terminal for the living standards of the very people who voted for this disaster.

I have to say that I was not, and am not, a lover of the EU but the yawning chasm that is opening up makes the question of grammar schools almost totally irrelevant. I suspect that after March 2017 things are going to get a whole lot worse and we shall all rue the day when that decision to leave the EU was made. The time to have left the EU was at the time of the first referendum in June 1975. But perhaps the PM has discovered the secret of time travel and by taking us back to the 1950s (in educational terms) she hopes that "it will be alright on the night". The sad thing is that it won't be alright and this self-inflicted injury will just fester as time goes by.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:11 am 
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The groundswell amongst the public is the opposites of that within the Political circles - the public
like Grammar Schools and want more of them + selection at age 11.

Your source for this?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:42 am 
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Whilst I can believe that grammar schools may in general be supported by 20% of families whose children are likely to succeed in gaining entry to them, I find it hard to believe that the 80% of families whose children are likely to fail the 11+, have the same desire to see more grammar schools.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:20 am 
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kato paphos wrote:
Whilst I can believe that grammar schools may in general be supported by 20% of families whose children are likely to succeed in gaining entry to them, I find it hard to believe that the 80% of families whose children are likely to fail the 11+, have the same desire to see more grammar schools.

I think that the most sensible decision would be the establishment of Grammar Schools for the pupils with an academic leaning .... together .... with Technical Schools for those whose main capabilities lie in their hands.
This does not make 'one side better than the other'. They just need different brain skills to be applied.
There are 'brain surgeons' who could not make a piece of furniture ... and 'gardeners' who could not solve a simultaneous quadratic equation.
However, we need them all !
So no child should be denied the chance to make the most of their relevant skills.
A 'test' at aged 11 should not be seen as pass/fail .... but an indication of 'applicable skills'.
Should their development have changed, by the age of 13, they should then be allowed to transfer schools (and should apply both ways).
The only thing I disagree with Theresa May is re. Faith Schools. I think that religion (of any faith) is a personal choice and should be kept apart from education. Schools should teach the respect for others beliefs but not impose such ideas on developing brains. In the end, it will be for the pupil to decide their own faith .... not necessarily that of their teachers or parents !


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:40 am 
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zorbathejock wrote:
The groundswell amongst the public is the opposites of that within the Political circles - the public
like Grammar Schools and want more of them + selection at age 11.

Your source for this?


1. SKY News UK.
2. Daily Telegraph and Guardian Newspapers.

Geoff.


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