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Probate - advice needed
https://www.paphospeople.com/ppforum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12917		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Darling [ Fri May 28, 2010 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Probate - advice needed
Hi All,

My friends, husband & wife - unfortunately the lady friend has died. Can anyone please advise who to contact re probate. The quote & horror stories of costs so far are horrific & not something he would like to deal with under the circumstances.

Love to hear from anyone with some knowledge or information.

Thank you.
:heart
Author:  Neil [ Sat May 29, 2010 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Not something I have had any dealings with ,, thank god .
But I am sure someone will be able to give you some info ..
Author:  Darling [ Sat May 29, 2010 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Thanks Neil... You're right about that. A general point in some direction would be better than nothing for my friend so thanks to anyone that can say something. :greetings
Author:  emgeeb [ Sun May 30, 2010 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Isn't this a job for the Executor of the Will and the deceased's Lawyer?

Alan
Author:  Neil [ Sun May 30, 2010 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
emgeeb wrote:
Isn't this a job for the Executor of the Will and the deceased's Lawyer?

Alan

what if there is no will ..
Author:  Jean [ Sun May 30, 2010 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
emgeeb wrote:
Isn't this a job for the Executor of the Will and the deceased's Lawyer?

Alan


And here in Cyprus, isn't this all usually the same person?????
Author:  Fy dyfodol [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Going through this myself at the moment 2 years 3 months and 13 days - I can advise you of the following:

If there is a Will - here in Cyprus there is still Probate. The minimum cost for Probate is Euros 8,500.00. If the Will was made with a reputable solicitor in Cyprus - and there are some, then the bill would be approx Euros 4,000.00. However if the Will was made with Nicos Papacleovoulou - Advocates & Legal Consultants (who ours were made with) - they will soak you for all they can get. My next door neighbours husband died a few days after my husband died - and her Probate is complete. All they had was the house and a car here in Cyprus and she had a bill for Euros 8,500.00 from Nicos Papacleovoulou. I am dreading my final bill because these solicitors judge you by what they think you are worth. My husband left me £3.20 - and I have the letter to prove it - but because we worked in the ME the solicitors think that I have thousands........................... They are totally incompetent - could give you loads of examples but you can PM me for these, and they are the first solictors to have been prosecuted - and successfully - in Cyprus. Am I mad - you bet I am............................

If there is no Will - then there is a big problem as technically - according to what our above solicitors told us - then everything goes to The State. Now I have no idea if that is true or not - as it was from our solicitors who have a lot more to answer to yet from what I have heard.

I can also tell you that British Wills here are the only Wills that are absolute. IE. Any other nationality have to follow Cyprus Law - which leaves everything to the eldest son etc etc etc - easily looked up on the web.

Hope this helps and if you need advise on which lawyer to go to please PM me as I now have a super duper lawyer who is helping me slowly to sort out everything...... but it will still cost me money that I do not have..............

Has anyone found a money tree yet as I could sure do with a cutting!!!!!

For the regulars - my chronic depression - and the above is just a small part of the cause - is now under control and I am finally finding a life thanks to some lovely members that PM'd me.
Author:  Fy dyfodol [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Forgot to say that you can name your own Executor in your Will - if you are British. Also need to tell you that whoever is your Executor is entitled to 20% of the estate.

Death is a doodoo in Cyprus - sorry but going through it myself right now..............
Author:  Miss Marple [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Fy dyfodol wrote:
For the regulars - my chronic depression - and the above is just a small part of the cause - is now under control and I am finally finding a life thanks to some lovely members that PM'd me.


Fy dyfodol - sorry to hear you were unwell but it's good to have you back - hopefully the nice weather you are currently having will cheer you up a bit too 8-) Julie x
Author:  Molly [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Jean wrote:
emgeeb wrote:
Isn't this a job for the Executor of the Will and the deceased's Lawyer?

Alan


And here in Cyprus, isn't this all usually the same person?????



In a word - no - our children are our Executors (if both of us should die together) if not then it's me or him
Author:  Paphian4761 [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Dear Darling

I am assuming that this lady lived and died in Cyprus.
If she died Intestate ( with out a will) then Cypriot Law on heirship will prevail. Its based on the Middle eastern Law of Heirship-
Her estate will pass to her Children or to other immediate living blood members of her family.
If she had made a Will in Cyprus then check to see if the Lawyer has named himself as the Executor, if he has then you have to ask him to act for you and except his charges. If a lay person is named as the Executor then that executor can shop around for a Lawyer. The Lawyer that our company uses for such purposes charges 3% of assets not anything like what I have seen written on some of these posts.
Probate can take 1- 3 months if simple and no co-ownerships issues. If its just bank accounts and no property then around 1 month our lawyer advises.

I hope this helps and email me if you need any further info.
Author:  Neil [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Welcome to paphos people, Paphian4761 .

Thank you for your input
:greetings
Author:  Darling [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Thanks Paphian, your post is clear, helpful & gives me, and I'm sure others pause for thought. If you are in a situation to offer your professional services then I would appreciate a PM with your details or someone that you can recommend. I can't offer the answers as the widower is currently in the UK but will pass on all that you say.

:greetings Thank you.
Author:  wayden [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Dear Paphian,

Would you be so kind as to PM me the details of your lawyer. I would be most grateful.
Author:  Darling [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
I have received a reply PM from Paphian.. thank you... the subject of wills (Cyprus/UK), joint bank account being and/or, car ownership, executor - who?, and all the rest.... very important & maybe something to consider but it's Friday so maybe too heavy just now but think about it... probate it seems is no joke. Perhaps Paphos People could consider the subject as a sticky.
Author:  mark11 [ Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Hello
If I can help, please do not hesitate to call me on 96549826 and as I say if I can help you I will.
Mark Tilden
Solicitor (rtd); F. Inst. PA.
Author:  JandT [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
we have a cypriot lawyer working for us (for an english form) we have just started wills and are getting to grips with the local laws and forced heirship rules but if anyone wants a free consultation or advise them pm me and I'll share all I can :)
Author:  Paphian4761 [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Dear All

We offer a sevice for Wills for English expatriates here in Cyprus. The Will format is vertually the same as the UK version but has been adapted by our Cypriot Company Lawyer to accomadate some of the necessary changes to ensure that you , being English can leave your estate to whom you wish too, and therefore do not need to go down the road of forced heirship issues that are a part of Cypriot Laws. Cypriots cannot avoid this but if we are English we can, as long as we make a will.
We also do not need to name a Lawyer as the Executor, keeping control in the family and therefore choosing the Lawyer who does not want to charge us anything from 10-20% of the estate value.
Our lawyer has stated that this is price is inflated, but if they are the named executor you cannot go elsewhere, you are locked into accepting his/her charges.

We have been offering this service since May 2010 and have found that a lot of our clients have previously made Wills here in Cyprus. They have named the Lawyer as the executor and just want control back by naming there own Executors.

I anyone wishes to PM me I am happy to explain in further depth.
We currently sponser this site and you can find our services and price list by following the link below.

regards
Paphian4761
Author:  dorsetfam [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Sorry if my post is a bit delayed.
I can recommend Horizon Group as i've had delaings with them. They have an in house English University trained Cypriot lawyer. They can be executors for a fee of 1%

26 818 358 - ask for Mark

Cheers
Author:  Darling [ Fri May 06, 2011 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
dorsetfam wrote:
Sorry if my post is a bit delayed.
I can recommend Horizon Group as i've had delaings with them. They have an in house English University trained Cypriot lawyer. They can be executors for a fee of 1%

26 818 358 - ask for Mark

Cheers


Hi Dorsetfam,

Thanks for your posting & my friend has been to see them today. So far, excellant.

To everyone else - check your Wills - if you have a solictor or lawyer as executor of your Will - CHANGE IT !!!!!!!!!! OR :pow :pow :pow for sure.....
Author:  beverley [ Fri May 06, 2011 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Our Lawyer who wrote our wills and sent us with his secretary to have them lodged with the court in Paphos is named as our executor and has told us that his charges will be 1% if we ever need to use his services (not for a long time yet we hope).
I am happy to give you his name as we feel he is one of the honest ones.
Author:  moggy [ Fri May 06, 2011 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
We have recently set up our wills through White and Georgiou and would recommend them to anyone. Our wills are now lodged at the court house(?) in Paphos. We have only family members as executors, so will be able to shop around for a solicitor when the time comes.

Kath and John
Author:  Haris Kalogirou [ Mon May 09, 2011 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Good Morning,

I will be happy to meet and/or communicate with your friends. I will explain the proceedure that needs to be followed and confirm my fees to complete the Probate.

I do not charge for the first meeting.


Kind Regards


Haris Kalogirou
Author:  Darling [ Sun May 29, 2011 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
I found this quoted on another forum.

Can anyone confirm this please?

....... "as executor they can by law charge a statutory fixed minimum fee as a % of the total estate value.
However they cannot charge the fixed % fee if they are requested to administer the estate by the executors .The solicitor as the administrator would then have to agree a fee with the executors before commencing work"

Many lawyers are stating that the fixed amount min. fee of 5% is set by the bar association & so their hands are tied but what they don't appear to say is that if they are not the executor but only the administer than you can agree a fixed rate.

Anyone know???

Thanks
Author:  Darling [ Sun May 29, 2011 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Copied from this link:- http://proact.typepad.com/blog/

"A Cyprus Lawyer appointed as executor in a Cyprus Will is only allowed to charge a fixed charge laid down in law and by the Cyprus Bar Association.
As an administrator appointed by an executor this is not the case and the likely fees are Euro2-3000".

and

"Meanwhile anyone you know who has a Cyprus Will appointing a Cyprus Solicitor as executor should be advised to review the Will as soon as possible".

or you could have sad story .....

...... "She passed away in October 2008 and i have since been awaiting probate until it came through in early 2010 but i have witheld payment due to its excesive executor charges by the Cypriot Lawyer - Euro18,044. I have spoken to various people and they all agree that its excesive".
Author:  Neil [ Sun May 29, 2011 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
18k bl00dy ell ! thats a bit much ...
At least d1ck turpin was decent enough to wear a mask when he robbed you !!
Author:  Boskabouter [ Sun May 29, 2011 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Haris Kalogirou
In do we trust !
Author:  Idleitis [ Mon May 30, 2011 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
"I have a friend who cannot get in on this thread and he has asked me to enter this message, "May I thank Paphian 4761 for the contribution to this thread - however, English Wills keep coming up. Some 3 years ago I made my will here in Cyprus and my Cyprus Lawyer (who is also a Barrister) said "English Wills are not acceptable in Cyprus and a Cyprus Will must be made" Can Paphian4781 please comment on this"


Many thanks

John
Author:  Haris Kalogirou [ Mon May 30, 2011 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Dear All,

I have read all the comments and wish to state as follows:

To clarify first, the person who is appointed in your Will to handle your Estate is the Executor. If somebody dies without a Will and the Court appoints somebody to do the Probate this person is the Administrator.

If a Lawyer is either the Executor or Administrator he/she has the right to charge 5% of the value of the Estate or to ask from a committee of the Cyprus Bar Association to calculate the fees.

The other way is to ask from the beginning, i.e. when your draw up your Will, to clarify what the charges/fees will be.

If the Executor or Administrator is not a Lawyer, but either a family member or friend of the person who died, and this Administrator or Executor appoints a Lawyer to do the work then the Lawyer acts only as a Lawyer and he/she has the right to charge legal fees. The legal fees should again be agreed from the beginning between the Lawyer and Executor, or the Cyprus Bar Association can calculate it. In this case it will be less than the 5%.

You can use you U.K. Will in Cyprus if it mentions your Cypriot assets. If the assets are not mentioned in your U.K. Will then you need to make a Cypriot Will.

It is preferable and I usually advise my clients to have separate Will in Cyprus for the Cyprus assets for two reasons, firstly the Probate procedure is easier if there is a Cypriot Will and secondly there is no inheritance tax in Cyprus.

My office has never charged 5% of the value of the Estate as fees for a Probate and I usually agree the fees with my clients from the beginning, i.e. when the Will is drawn up or when the beneficiaries employs us as Administrator or just Lawyers to deal with the Probate.

It is up to you who you appoint as Executor or Administrator, but for your own protection all legal work should be done by qualified legal professional.

Regards


Haris Kalogirou
Lawyer
Author:  Neil [ Mon May 30, 2011 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Well that sounds a bit clearer Haris .
:clap
5% of someones estate could be a very large sum , I dont think I
would to happy about paying that out .
Author:  Darling [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Thank you Haris for your clarification and laying out your stall so clearly. :clap :clap :clap

Dear Haris,
We understand there are out of pocket expenses what are these likely to be? (Stamps etc).
What is the position when the title deeds have not been issued?
Some information about changing the house sale contract and costs?


Dear All,
REMINDER ... if you have your Lawyer named in your Cyprus Will as your Executor I strongly suggest you THINK about what you are doing !!!!!!!
Author:  Darling [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advise needed
Paphian4761 wrote:
If a lay person is named as the Executor then that executor can shop around for a Lawyer.


Haris Kalogirou wrote:
If the Executor or Administrator is not a Lawyer, but either a family member or friend of the person who died, and this Administrator or Executor appoints a Lawyer to do the work then the Lawyer acts only as a Lawyer and he/she has the right to charge legal fees. The legal fees should again be agreed from the beginning between the Lawyer and Executor, or the Cyprus Bar Association can calculate it. In this case it will be less than the 5%.
Haris Kalogirou
Lawyer


So the lay person Executor doesn't need to appoint an Executor or an Administrator just a Lawyer at an agreed fixed fee upfront, therefore avoiding the Cyprus Bar Association (CBA) minimum fee of 5%?. (This incidentally has NO maximum fee limits - re the horror stories).

If the lay Executor appoints a Lawyer as an Administrator does this carry any legal weight i.e. could or does the CBA 5% minimum fee apply?
Author:  JandT [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advice needed
Can I just clarify that you only need a cyprus will if you have immoveable property in cyprus (i.e a house etc) . Otherwise you can use worldwide will.
Author:  Bristolian [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advice needed
JandT - Please read Harriis's notes on English Wills - he has made it very plain, an English Will will be accepted if ALL your Cyprus assests are mentioned in it.

John
Author:  Haris Kalogirou [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advice needed
Dear All,

I have seen all the comments the last 24 hours and will reply as follows:

1. You can have a Cyprus Will if you any property in Cyprus, i.e. moveable or immovable. Thus any assets, house, money, shares etc.

2. If a person prefers, they can put any assets they have in their British Will, but when he/she dies the Probate application must be done in the Court of Cyprus as well for the assets in Cyprus.

3. It is preferable and my advice is for everybody to have a separate Will for the assets in Cyprus. The reason is that the Probate procedure is easier and also in Cyprus there is no inheritance tax, so leave your Cyprus property out of your British Will.

4. The out of pocket expenses and stamps depends on the valuation of the property. When we say property we mean immovable, moveable and/or any other assets.

5. When the title deeds for the immovable property has not been issued, and one of the owners dies we need to get Probate and then sign an assignment with the Developer that all the rights of the deceased goes to the beneficiaries and the Executor will do the transfer of the title deed only when the separate title has been issued. After completion of the Probate and before the issue of the separate title deeds the beneficiaries can sell the property and the Executor will sign for the deceased. It is not a problem if the title deed has not been issued.

6. To change the contract of sale, I understand that this is to take one purchasers name of the contract (while both parties are still alive) i.e. if a husband and wife bought a property together and now want the property only in the name of one of the parties. First the Developer has to agree to this, and might charge a fee for this, stamp duty will have to pay again on the new contract, as the price will be the same the stamp duty will be the same as the first contract.

7. If the Executor is not a Lawyer (i.e. a lay person) off-course he does not need to appoint an Executor he will appoint a Lawyer to do a legal service for him. In any event the Executor or Administrator can agree the legal fees upfront.

I believe matters are clearer now.

Kind Regards

Haris Kalogirou
Lawyer
Author:  beeshar [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advice needed
Hi Paphian
pm'd you.
Author:  beeshar [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advice needed
Hi Haris
When we bought our property in both names we paid no stamp/vat was N/A as part of the deal would this mean
if we had to change the ownership to one name we would not pay stamp duty at all? thanks.
Author:  Haris Kalogirou [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advice needed
Good morning,

For every single contract of sale which you want to lodge with the land registry office for specific performance you have to pay stamp duty. Stamp duty is differrent to the VAT.

There is a bit of confunsion here, if you wish you can call me to discuss.


Best Regards


Haris Kalogirou
Author:  zorbathejock [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probate - advice needed
i keep seeing adverts about english and cyprus wills. What about Scottish wills? is there a difference/ Also if you do not own property in Cyprus is it worth making a will? A joint bank account can be accessed by the surviving partner surely.
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