Paphos People

Just wondering if the work on the harbour front is now complete, or is the still some work on going?
We have been back in the UK since May, when we left Cyprus the shops were just starting to open again, whats it like now?

Jan

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ALWAYS MOVE FORWARD

Jan it look's great, i have some pic of the harbour, but i can't seem to put them on here ?so i have to send them to Pete to post on here. When are you over next Jan

Not until October because we are moving house.....nightmare.
I am really looking forward to seeing the harbour complete. Also the pathway from the fort to the lighthouse and beach should be completed by then, nice walk that I always enjoy it, then I walk back and have a coffee
Looking forward to seeing your pictures.

Jan

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ALWAYS MOVE FORWARD

I a few letters in the cyprus mail today
they are complaining about there being no wall
along the sea front now ,, concerns about safety etc ,
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

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REACH 1000`s of PAPHOS CUSTOMERS EVERY DAY FOR A FRACTION OF WHAT THE OTHERS CHARGE
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Whilst the optimist and the pessimist argued that the whisky glass was either half full
or half empty ? .
I drank it .....
The opportunist..

There are some people who feel compelled to write to the local newspapers to whinge about anything (the names on a couple of the letters in Neil's link pop up regularly - never with anything good to say about the place). If they dislike it here so much, why do they stay? There are plenty of other places in the world where they could go and be dissatisfied, for it is a fact that some folk could not be content anywhere. They didn't like Britain and now complain about Cyprus because it isn't like Britain. It never was!

As for the Poseidonos Avenue redevelopment - IT IS NOT YET FINISHED! It is a project that will last a couple of years. It is not something that can simply be dropped into place overnight; nevertheless the back of the job has been broken and it is a vast improvement on what was there before, or have these idiots got such short memories that they cannot remember what is was like last year?

It was never going to be painless to perform a major upgrade in a popular tourist area, yet this is only half a mile of road out of a whole island. There is no need even to go there yet still have an enjoyable holiday in Paphos.

Yes there is no seating and little shelter ... but there will be! There will also be better street lighting than the temporary lights currently present.

Does the sea front need a fence/wall to stop idiots falling off it? No more than the whole coast needs fencing off to stop people falling in the sea! A wall to hold back the winter storm surges perhaps, but no-one has mentioned that ... yet.

There is going to be disruption here for at least another twelve months, as we have only seen the first stage of the road works, but the final result should be a much better place for visitors and residents alike.

I think it would look nice & safer if they put some chrome style barrier, maybe with tempered glass, so they don't block the view out to the harbour or see too much

That sounds a good idea Pete. I'm not too old to remember what it's like trying to keep your eye on your kids 24/7 while on holiday.
Families will be attracted to the area and it will be better put up some form of barrier beofre a child drowns, not after.
Gary

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So close yet so far away

Families are attracted to the harbour area too. Do you want a fence round there? There is far more danger of someone drowning would they fall in the deep water there. Just where do you stop with this fencing of perceived dangers?

It is impossible to make life free from all possible danger. If you keep kids wrapped up in cotton wool, they become ill equipped to deal with adult life. Children that are too small to understand the dangers should not be left free to wander around on their own.

Hello KG, hope you are enjoying your Sunday.
You ask if I want a fence around the Harbour too. It is you who is calling it a fence not me. As I recall there is already a raised wall around the Harbour, is there not ? If there is not then I think what Pete suggests would enhance the outlook.We are not talking about putting up a 6 x 3 creosoted piece of timber.
Who is talking about wrapping children up in cotton wool ? I am suggesting a safe environment for children. That's only natural, isn't it ?
Of course small children unable to understand danger should not be left to wander around but accidents do happen, kids will be kids, what I'm saying is it will be better to prevent an accident than regret one.
Carry on enjoying your Sunday.
Gary

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So close yet so far away

This was taken when we were over a couple of weeks ago



Looks good

Brian

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An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Gary
Sunday is fine - if a little hot and sticky

There is no wall around the harbour - only near the restaurants - and then not on the jetties. Fence, railing, wall - what's in a name? From a safety aspect it would be pointless. In the UK, Blackpool for example has a safety wall - essential to keep out the sea - but still unsupervised children, and adults who should know better, are regularly swept to their deaths, because they clamber on or over it. It would be the same here. Even with the old wall, kids were allowed, often encouraged, to walk along the top of it. Occasionally they fell off. You can't always protect people from their own (or their parents') stupidity, and as I said earlier you cannot eliminate all accidents.

There are no plans to erect a barrier along Poseidonos Avenue - however I suspect that you will get your way if we have a bad winter and the sea engulfs some of the shops. The sea used to come over the old foreshore wall, bringing with it rocks and debris. Now we don't have that protection. The boulder breakwater will help, but is not up to a severe storm. Let's see what winter brings (rain I hope) - in the meantime it looks great without the barrier. As Brian's picture shows, the transition between land and sea is not exactly obsured!

Thanks for the pic Brian the front looks really good.
I see cars in the picture, is traffic allowed along there?
The only reason I will miss the wall is for sitting on and chatting to other people. The safety angle will appear anyway when a few incidents have occurred...which I have no doubt will. The sea defences don't look very strong to me though, I don't think a few boulders will stop the waves from washing over....time will tell.

Jan

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ALWAYS MOVE FORWARD

Jan
I have not been down there for a few days, but traffic (apart from the odd lunatic in a buggy or on a scooter) was being kept out. The vehicles in the picture are contractors' vehicles. I dread to think what will happen when (if) they let vehicles through. Now that would be a safety issue

Jan

What dates are you going to be in Cyprus in Oct. I am over on the 15th Oct. for 2 weeks, with a family friend and his wife and downs syndrome child. We would really love to meet up with you & hubbie for lunch or dinner sometime when you not to busy. Or you can come to villa and have dinner with us, my cooking is A1 I do a fantastic egg and chips

Looks good, Brian,I will miss the wall need a seat to eat my ice cream&people watch
Mark is that chips&egg with donuts for sweet
Tricia

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new me new life, , never forget my cyprus life and friends .

Oh Tricia i love to people watch to, it so much fun just looking at them passing by, and you even see people talking to themselves

The old wall was convenient to stop small kids running wild falling off but yes you could say that should they be running loose anyway if they don't know enough to not fall off. We had a child that was too small to get over the old wall so the wall gave us some security that we didn't have to "wrap him in cotton wool" by keeping him in push chair or holding our hand whilst we were down there. After 1 year he is now big enough to climb over it anyway so wouldn't give me piece of mind now, but i think he is also more aware to no fall off ... we will see next time we are down there (pls note that is not a promise to perform a dare experiment on my son !!)

The old wall presumably had some sort of effect in keeping higher than normal seas from getting straight into the shops so that 50cm that has now gone surely will allow more winter water into the road/walkway area ? I think there is a drain system in the "road" part of the pedastrian area so maybe that is what will handle the water when it does arrive.

The biggest benefit of that sea wall, personally, was for someone to park to eat a butter+salt dripping freshly burnt corn-on-the-cob and watch people go by, or take a quick breather before getting a cab home .... so whilst KG says there will be seating. the old wall gave a convenient, if a little dirty 1/2 mile long bench !!!

Is there a good reason to NOT have a short wall like the old one or was it just change for change sake ?

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My opinion; worth price charged.

As a parent I know what it takes to stop your children trying things when they want too & looking over a parapit into water to see the fish asks for more of them to fall in if not properly supervised If some sort of clear barrier could be erected along the area would prevent possible deaths of younger children & save us saying in the future 'why didn't they put something there' it would also leave the clear view & help keep out the storm weather that Paphos normally gets during the winter months, I know back in winter 99, the shop fronts were flooded out due to high waves & the water couldn't recede back due to the small wall, but a clear fence would help on both accounts as it could have a few inch gap at the bottom to let water recede back into the sea & high enough to stop young children from falling over imo

Chris

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"If you haven't got a plan, you don't have a map. If you don't have a map, you'll never find the treasure!"

Chris, why is that a good post ?
For the first time ever, I think, I can not agree with you.
It is not a good post at all.
What Pete suggests makes real sense.
Without some sort of barrier, people with children may well stay away from that area, unless they feel happy to keep the kids under lock and chain, so to speak. Is that what the shopkeepers/bar owners want....... No it isn't.
Everyone wants a safe environment surely.
NB. KG likes an argument.
AND Can you remember what it is like to keep your kids happyand safe. Like when a kid sees a fish or an exotic bird what are they gonna do ?
Yes, run to it,if they can.It doesn't matter if you are the most caring/vigilant parents in the world, accidents will happen.
Goodnight. Gary

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So close yet so far away

Gary, i completely agree with you, sorry Chris cannot agree with you or KG at all, being a new mum my baby in my number 1 concern (as it is for all mums ) and a safety barrier of some sort MUST be put up or i for one will never ever go back down to the harbour when Jamie can walk, i could never ever live with myself if something happened to him down there, children can be so headstrong when they see something that catches their eye they want to explore and see more, they could run off so easily and quickly, some sort of barrier can prevent a childs injury or even worse, death - a small wall will not prevent people from seeing the view - it never did before so why is it such an issue now???

Amanda

No, I like to provoke reasoned debate about matters that interest me. It would be a dull forum if everyone agreed about everything. The avatar that accompanies my log in was deliberately chosen

It matters now only because the planning authorities in Nicosia, who approved the redevelopment, have decreed that there will be no barrier other than the boulder breakwater. This is despite the reasonable concerns, not from parents who cannot keep hold of their wayward children, but from shopholders on Poseidonos Avenue who are all to familiar with the nature of winter storms along this short section of coastline.

Those who have been here a while may remember when the "Ta Bania" restaurant was originally fitted out. The first winter storm (within weeks of the work being completed) took out the glass front of the premises and the tables and chairs were left bobbing around in the bay. It took heavy steel barriers to protect the glass after that. The Mediterranean is not a benign mill pond.

There is nothing unique about an unfenced promenade with a drop to the beach. Llandudno has managed with such an arrangement since Victorian times without causing mass panic



Nor do I remember there being any barriers along the top of the white cliffs of Dover last time I was there - and that's a serious drop, so what's so different about Kato Paphos?

I cannot think of one harbour anywhere that has a barrier to stop people falling in the sea. Here in Cyprus, at least during the last 20 years, I cannot remember a single incidence of drowning attributable to someone falling in the harbour - yet we have had plenty of drownings whilst swimming (often whilst intoxicated) through boating accidents - even through parascending, but I hear no clamour to ban swimming, boating or parascending?

In that time there have also been lots of people who have tripped on the old promenade and ended up with broken arms or legs, through not looking where they put their feet.

Children allowed to run around without parental control (not to mention the parents themselves) will be in far more danger if/when traffic is allowed to use the promenade, where there isn't even a raised pavement to mark the road and footpath areas. All you have is an ankle breaking gully and a couple of rows of different coloured cobble stones.

Poseidonos Avenue may yet get its sea wall, but I wouldn't count on it before shops are damaged or the expensive new cobble stones are ripped away by sea water.

Just put the wall back as it was, have you never been down the front during the storms KG?? have you no idea what its like in the winter here? no barriers it wont just be children washed into the harbour but maybe grumpy men too
seriously it'll be dangerous thats why?

Amanda

Lets hope they dont put those big concrete block as a storm barrier like the ones round the harbour it used to be so nice walking along the castle wall watching the sea --not any more. As for Pete's idea --nice-- but the rails will discolour just like the pool steps and the perspex/plastic will end up like frosted glass over time. Marj

I have 4 children non of them wayward or out of control, and yes I would like to see a barrier or a small wall too.

It's nice to be able to let go oftheir hands and let them wander ahead sometimes, watching from a safe distance as they explore the world without Mum and Dad, or reins or buggies, sadly this can no longer happen along the front .No matter what it is an accident waiting to happen.

I know child safety will not be a Major Concern to the planners, and why should it, in a country where parents are happy to play 'russian roulette' with their children in cars daily.

We were all children once and I hope mine grow up to be more reasonable and accomodating adults.

Rebel Sam x

Amanda
You have only been reading what you want to read from my posts on the subject. I have seen every winter here but one in the last twenty years and like the shopkeepers along Poseidonos Avenue, I seriously doubt whether the new sea 'defences' are up to coping with a major storm. I also doubt that Pete's idea of a glass barrier would stand up to such weather, and as Marg says, it would soon look a mess.

The block of stone in the first picture below weighed over a ton and was lifted over the sea wall and dropped on the harbour like a piece of flotsam. By the time I was able to get close enough to take that picture the storm seas has subsided. The wave tops had been visible above the fort!

What I was disputing was the need to have a fence/wall/barrier on the grounds of 'so called' safety. If people cannot walk along a thirty meter wide footpath without falling off it, they really have no business being there. People should really take responsibility for their own safety, and the safety of their children. Thanks to ambulance chasing lawyers in the UK, Britain has developed a blame culture, where accidents are always someone else's fault. The overall effect is stifling and has destroyed much of normal everyday activity that we took for granted when we were children. Parents no longer let their children out to play in many parts of the UK - not because they are in any more danger than they were 20, 30, 40 or more years ago, but because of an obsession that something 'may happen' to them thanks to rare incidents getting excessive press publicity. There is no such culture here. Long may it remain so. The freedom from a cloying nanny state and the easy going laid back lifestyle are a major part of the reasons I love living here.

No-one but the foolhardy would venture on the harbour in a major storm. In any case, the redevelopment has not affected the 'harbour', but the promenade of Poseidonos Avenue.

As for having seen storms:







and even when you have a wall, it does not stop the foolhardy from risking life and limb dodging the waves:



I have even see adults standing on the wall in the picture below, with very young children risking being swept into the sea, or putting their children there to be photographed with the waves breaking behind them and getting them soaked to the skin. So what good was that wall as a safety measure? People with sense will keep away from danger. People without will endanger themselves and their children whatever measures are put into place.

I can see both sides of this story and I've looked back to other places we have visited with harbours here and abroad and I have to say, I can't remember one with a safety barrier. Just for example if you visit the small harbour of Latchi there is no barrier there.

After saying that, it isn't good for young children so parents will have to be vigilant.

Good pictures KG.

Jan

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ALWAYS MOVE FORWARD

A child that is over 3 years would have been over the old wall in a few seconds anyway so some sort of physical/mind ( ) control would have been needed, same as it will be now.

Real protection against storms and having a nice view don't appear compatible from the looks of what has been done next to the fort.

My only gripe is lack of seating as that is what the old wall gave me.

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My opinion; worth price charged.

The barrier I suggested wouldn't be to stop the sea but basically to stop children or others falling into the water, it could be made of chrome or other metal & have tempered glass, not plastic so that people could still have the view out to sea, something like this maybe:


I know this is a belcony but it's just an example & wouldn't look out of place either

I know they have a barrier of sorts at Blackpool & other sea side resorts to stop people falling over the sea walls, as for your photo's KG, the first one you showed of Llandudno, the beach is sandy & just below the promenade is it not, so you don't really need to worry about children drowning there

I see where you are coming from Pete regarding the glass 'fence', but the problem is going to be from the sea coming over the land, and not the odd unattended kid falling off the promenade onto the rocks. The new breakwater appears inadequate to the task of keeping the sea at bay, so your 'fence' would have to withstand the waves. We had a mild winter this year, and yet the water was breaking onto the cobbles while they were still laying them. The next time we have a proper winter storm, the efficacy of the sea defences will be re-appraised.

The issue with the concrete blocks on the harbour is a little different. Yes they are unsightly, but the problem there was getting permission to build on archaeological site of importance. The wall is part of the ancient harbour wall. The blocks were laid as a 'temporary' solution. Frankly I don't see why they could not have the addition of a stone block decorative wall to match the general appearance of the fort and enhance the overall aspect, but this is foremost a working harbour and I doubt it has even occurred to anyone to do that ... yet

Incidentally the barriers at Blackpool are primarily aimed at keeping the sea off the promenade. There is a sandy beach at Llandudno - a much loved part of Wales where we spent part of our holidays the last two years - but not below the promenade:

The one thing we have to remember is, the harbour isn't used as much in the winter months as we have fewer tourists so the fence I would like to see wouldn't be a defence (excuse the pun) against the elements, it would be a defence against children & drunks falling off the promenade mainly during the summer months when parents & children like to take a walk around that area

I know it will never happen because it would cost a fortune to fence all the way around that area but it would be nice to see something