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 Post subject: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:38 am 
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Lovely place but what is the next step in this situation?
Where can blame if any be laid?

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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:43 am 
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tanny wrote:
Lovely place but what is the next step in this situation?
Where can blame if any be laid?


Blame for what?
Trump had the full support of the USA Senate, they voted 100% for it.
Previous USA Presidents had promised to do it, bit never did (Clinton, Bush jr, Obama).
Jersusalem has been the capital city if Israel since 1947, and capital cities are where Embassies are usually located.
I hope more Countries will follow the USA's example and shift their embassies from Tel Aviv to the capital.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:18 am 
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So if the USA (by majority or not) ordains something to be the case in any part of the world that makes it absolute?

What about the tables being turned? https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12/palestinians-recognize-texas-part-mexico/

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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:00 am 
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tanny wrote:
So if the USA (by majority or not) ordains something to be the case in any part of the world that makes it absolute?

What about the tables being turned? https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12/palestinians-recognize-texas-part-mexico/


What does it matter where their Embassy is?
In answer to your question it sure seems that way.
Remember! Israel has been under daily attack from its enemies for years and some including Iran want to see it's total destruction.
The USA has done the most of any country to support Israel, both financially and militarily.
The Palestinian Authority is another issue altogether from location of Embassies. But Gaza is under Hamas control following Israel's lifting of embargos on the area, firing rockets etc daily into Israel.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:36 am 
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if they never stole the land from the palastinians in the first place , we would not have this truoble.
there is no such place as isreal ! .
and they keep stealing land till this day , (the golan Heights)
:greetings

Trump has done what america does best , help to start another war in the middle east,
in order to keep his bosses happy (The american arms industry)
America survives on selling weapons and with no wars = no arms sales .
No big bung in trumps offshore accounts.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:44 am 
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Love him or hate him Donald Trump is the first president ever that has done or is doing what he said he would do when seeking election.Not my say,dont shoot the messenger. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:53 am 
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vine wrote:
Love him or hate him Donald Trump is the first president ever that has done or is doing what he said he would do when seeking election.Not my say,dont shoot the messenger. ;)


He said he would change american forgien policy and stop interfearing in other countries affairs ? NOPE ..
he said he would put hillirey in jail ? NOPE
He said he would make better relations with the russians . NOPE
He reversed Obamacare,
He is now caused a massive rift in the arab world ,
The doller will soon crash due to every country getting sick of him trying to dictate to them,
everyone is moving away from the petrodoller.
The man is an idiot ...

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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:01 am 
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Neil wrote:
vine wrote:
Love him or hate him Donald Trump is the first president ever that has done or is doing what he said he would do when seeking election.Not my say,dont shoot the messenger. ;)


He said he would change american forgien policy and stop interfearing in other countries affairs ? NOPE ..
he said he would put hillirey in jail ? NOPE
He said he would make better relations with the russians . NOPE
He reversed Obamacare,
He is now caused a massive rift in the arab world ,
The doller will soon crash due to every country getting sick of him trying to dictate to them,
everyone is moving away from the petrodoller.
The man is an idiot ...


Oh dear, who rattled your cage this morning Neil?
Trump had 100% of the senate vote to relocate their Embassy to Jerusalem.
Action man! Not an idiot.
IMO
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:12 am 
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exodus wrote:
Neil wrote:
vine wrote:
Love him or hate him Donald Trump is the first president ever that has done or is doing what he said he would do when seeking election.Not my say,dont shoot the messenger. ;)


He said he would change american forgien policy and stop interfearing in other countries affairs ? NOPE ..
he said he would put hillirey in jail ? NOPE
He said he would make better relations with the russians . NOPE
He reversed Obamacare,
He is now caused a massive rift in the arab world ,
The doller will soon crash due to every country getting sick of him trying to dictate to them,
everyone is moving away from the petrodoller.
The man is an idiot ...


Oh dear, who rattled your cage this morning Neil?
Trump had 100% of the senate vote to relocate their Embassy to Jerusalem.
Action man! Not an idiot.
IMO
Amos.


The senate ! WOW , read the press , every leader in the world has condemed it .
he has gone against decades old UN resolutions , not to do it and how many members of the senate do you think might
be jewish ?
just because america says so , the whole world has to follow , ? no other country in the world has its embassy there , all are in tel aviv
and all have said they are not moving ... america has done this in order to destabilze the middle east . :greetings
My cage is fine :greetings just telling you facts , ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Me thinks the facts are getting in the way of the truth! :roll: :lol:
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:47 pm 
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And how long will it be before a mortar bomb lands on the American embassy.
Yep! America back in another war!
:explode


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:52 pm 
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exodus wrote:
Remember! Israel has been under daily attack from its enemies for years

Pots and kettles spring to mind here.

What about decades of Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people? What about their arbitrary blockades? What about their eagerness to shoot unarmed civilians? What about the number of children killed when their schools were bombed (and hospitals)? What about the kids shot dead running along a beach? What about the Turkish peace protesters shot dead while trying to deliver aid to Gaza?

Israel is very lucky to have the support of the USA. Without it, they wouldn't be allowed to get away with the things that they have.

Both Israel and the USA think that this is a positive step and other countries will flock to follow suit, yet nobody has, and the condemnation of America's action is almost universal.

I am very sorry to say that this just seems another attempt at a land grab.

Given what has happened to Jews over the centuries, it saddens me to see Israel doing similar things to the Palestinians.

It isn't going to end well!


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Jerusalem has long been a flashpoint in relations between Arabs and Jews. However, to take this action now is one
of the most stupid moves ever, as it will result in war in that part of the world. As Trump is also waging a war of
childish "tweets" against North Korea, which looks ultimately to result in another war, he must feel proud that a
possible nuclear holocaust will be staged in our part of the world, but then as long as it is not on his doorstep he
will feel ok. The man is deranged, and I do hope Britain doesn't decide to get involved in this. After all, the Yanks
feel they won the last war, but then paid for all the rebuilding of Germany and Japan to make them allies, whilst we
paid until the early 21st century monies to The USA for what they said "we owed them".


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Effsie wrote:
exodus wrote:
Remember! Israel has been under daily attack from its enemies for years

Pots and kettles spring to mind here.

What about decades of Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people? What about their arbitrary blockades? What about their eagerness to shoot unarmed civilians? What about the number of children killed when their schools were bombed (and hospitals)? What about the kids shot dead running along a beach? What about the Turkish peace protesters shot dead while trying to deliver aid to Gaza?

Israel is very lucky to have the support of the USA. Without it, they wouldn't be allowed to get away with the things that they have.

Both Israel and the USA think that this is a positive step and other countries will flock to follow suit, yet nobody has, and the condemnation of America's action is almost universal.

I am very sorry to say that this just seems another attempt at a land grab.

Given what has happened to Jews over the centuries, it saddens me to see Israel doing similar things to the Palestinians.

It isn't going to end well!


It hasn't been going too well since the holocaust!
After that the State of Israel was formed, but always with associated difficulties; the arabs never liked us being in the region.
Now we have the extreme Islamists out to destroy us completely.
Thanks to the USA we survive, e.g. thanks to the patriot anti-missile systems kindly supplied by the USA.
Hopefully Trump's move will bring the Palestinian Authority to their senses and back to the negotiating table; but first they have to recognise the State of Israel and stop taking pot shots at it.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm 
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exodus wrote:
Thanks to the USA we survive, e.g. thanks to the patriot anti-missile systems kindly supplied by the USA.
Hopefully Trump's move will bring the Palestinian Authority to their senses and back to the negotiating table; but first they have to recognise the State of Israel and stop taking pot shots at it.
Amos.

We all know what happened back in the 1940s and that will never be forgotten, but please don't try and suggest that Israel is always the victim. From where I (and many others) sit, Israel is often the aggressor, hence my earlier comments.

You cannot bully an oppressed people into returning to the negotiating table. History tells us that much.

As I intimated before, I do not believe, as suggested, that this is a genuine attempt to restart the peace process. To me it looks nothing more than a change for another land grab and to weaken the position of the Palestinians.

If Israel wants peace in the middle east, maybe it should start by actually doing something constructive that doesn't involve shoot and bombing innocent people.

Remember also that Trump will not be president for much longer and, indeed, may be impeached before too long. Without him, the USA may not be quite as supportive as Israel would like, which may actually be something genuinely constructive for the peace process.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:43 pm 
Effsie wrote:
exodus wrote:
Thanks to the USA we survive, e.g. thanks to the patriot anti-missile systems kindly supplied by the USA.
Hopefully Trump's move will bring the Palestinian Authority to their senses and back to the negotiating table; but first they have to recognise the State of Israel and stop taking pot shots at it.
Amos.

We all know what happened back in the 1940s and that will never be forgotten, but please don't try and suggest that Israel is always the victim. From where I (and many others) sit, Israel is often the aggressor, hence my earlier comments.

You cannot bully an oppressed people into returning to the negotiating table. History tells us that much.

As I intimated before, I do not believe, as suggested, that this is a genuine attempt to restart the peace process. To me it looks nothing more than a change for another land grab and to weaken the position of the Palestinians.

If Israel wants peace in the middle east, maybe it should start by actually doing something constructive that doesn't involve shoot and bombing innocent people.

Remember also that Trump will not be president for much longer and, indeed, may be impeached before too long. Without him, the USA may not be quite as supportive as Israel would like, which may actually be something genuinely constructive for the peace process.

Very Good Post...After what the Jews have been through, over their History, you would think they would be a little bit more Humane but the way they treat the Palestinians is shameful...


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:13 pm 
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COYS wrote:
Effsie wrote:
exodus wrote:
Thanks to the USA we survive, e.g. thanks to the patriot anti-missile systems kindly supplied by the USA.
Hopefully Trump's move will bring the Palestinian Authority to their senses and back to the negotiating table; but first they have to recognise the State of Israel and stop taking pot shots at it.
Amos.

We all know what happened back in the 1940s and that will never be forgotten, but please don't try and suggest that Israel is always the victim. From where I (and many others) sit, Israel is often the aggressor, hence my earlier comments.

You cannot bully an oppressed people into returning to the negotiating table. History tells us that much.

As I intimated before, I do not believe, as suggested, that this is a genuine attempt to restart the peace process. To me it looks nothing more than a change for another land grab and to weaken the position of the Palestinians.

If Israel wants peace in the middle east, maybe it should start by actually doing something constructive that doesn't involve shoot and bombing innocent people.

Remember also that Trump will not be president for much longer and, indeed, may be impeached before too long. Without him, the USA may not be quite as supportive as Israel would like, which may actually be something genuinely constructive for the peace process.

Very Good Post...After what the Jews have been through, over their History, you would think they would be a little bit more Humane but the way they treat the Palestinians is shameful...


The Islamist loonies in the West Bank and Gaza do not want peace, they only want the destruction of Israel. They use any excuse to cause trouble and the Leadership of the Palestinian Authority are so scared of them they dare not stand up to them and seek peace.
Israel is scared on no one!
However many Embassies, if any, relocate to Jerusalem doesn't matter a hoot.
Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel, always was and always will be. End of!
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:02 pm 
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It is perhaps interesting that those people who sympathise with the Palestinians will generally condemn acts of terror undertaken in their name, yet supporters of Israel seemingly refuse to accept that Israel can do any wrong.

If other countries treated Israel the way that Israel treats Palestine, things would be very different.

I have no specific allegiance to either side, but I hate bullies and, sadly, that seems to be exactly what Israel is.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Effsie wrote:
It is perhaps interesting that those people who sympathise with the Palestinians will generally condemn acts of terror undertaken in their name, yet supporters of Israel seemingly refuse to accept that Israel can do any wrong.

If other countries treated Israel the way that Israel treats Palestine, things would be very different.

I have no specific allegiance to either side, but I hate bullies and, sadly, that seems to be exactly what Israel is.


You clearly know nothing.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:25 pm 
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exodus wrote:
Effsie wrote:
It is perhaps interesting that those people who sympathise with the Palestinians will generally condemn acts of terror undertaken in their name, yet supporters of Israel seemingly refuse to accept that Israel can do any wrong.

If other countries treated Israel the way that Israel treats Palestine, things would be very different.

I have no specific allegiance to either side, but I hate bullies and, sadly, that seems to be exactly what Israel is.


You clearly know nothing.
Amos.

Actually, I know plenty and perhaps see more than you do. From your posts you seem to have a very blinkered view. Others view the actions of Israel somewhat differently.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:35 pm 
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I used to admire Israel for the way they developed their country but am appalled at the way they have occupied Palestinian lands and ghettoised them by building walls. You would think that after the ways the Jews were treated in Germany they would have some humanity and understanding of the Palestinian population.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Totally agree with Neil, Effsie and Zorba. Israels treatment of the Palestinians is bordering on genocide and is utterly disgraceful.

I have been to Israel, particularly the West Bank and the Palestinian areas and seen the blatant invasion of Israel into Palestinian areas, which is still going on today.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:47 am 
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George wrote:
Totally agree with Neil, Effsie and Zorba. Israels treatment of the Palestinians is bordering on genocide and is utterly disgraceful.

I have been to Israel, particularly the West Bank and the Palestinian areas and seen the blatant invasion of Israel into Palestinian areas, which is still going on today.


You will also have seen the results of their (Hamas) daily attacks on innocent Israeli people.
Look, when the Leadership of the Palestinian Authority get a grip, stop such attacks, and return to the negotiating table THEN we can talk about who lives where and on what basis and a two-State scenario.
Meantime the peace process has hit the buffers.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:54 am 
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exodus wrote:
George wrote:
Totally agree with Neil, Effsie and Zorba. Israels treatment of the Palestinians is bordering on genocide and is utterly disgraceful.

I have been to Israel, particularly the West Bank and the Palestinian areas and seen the blatant invasion of Israel into Palestinian areas, which is still going on today.


You will also have seen the results of their (Hamas) daily attacks on innocent Israeli people.
Look, when the Leadership of the Palestinian Authority get a grip, stop such attacks, and return to the negotiating table THEN we can talk about who lives where and on what basis and a two-State scenario.
Meantime the peace process has hit the buffers.
Amos.


Perhaps if the Israelis stopped their land grab the Palestinians would stop attacking them. If your possessions were stolen would you not fight back?


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:52 am 
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zorbathejock wrote:
exodus wrote:
George wrote:
Totally agree with Neil, Effsie and Zorba. Israels treatment of the Palestinians is bordering on genocide and is utterly disgraceful.

I have been to Israel, particularly the West Bank and the Palestinian areas and seen the blatant invasion of Israel into Palestinian areas, which is still going on today.


You will also have seen the results of their (Hamas) daily attacks on innocent Israeli people.
Look, when the Leadership of the Palestinian Authority get a grip, stop such attacks, and return to the negotiating table THEN we can talk about who lives where and on what basis and a two-State scenario.
Meantime the peace process has hit the buffers.
Amos.


Perhaps if the Israelis stopped their land grab the Palestinians would stop attacking them. If your possessions were stolen would you not fight back?


They stole half of Jerusalem.
It all stems back to the 1967 war when Israel was fighting for its very existence.
Google it and read the background.
No one is blameless in all this - but it can be sorted out if the Leadership of the Palestinian Authority get a grip, stop the hostilities, and get round the negotiating table.
But no one is going to negotiate with them when under daily attack, whatever the background.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:17 pm 
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it was wrong of the brits and america to give it to the jews in the first place ,
there is no homeland for the jewish , they stole it ..

And as for quoting the bible !
yeh and mary was a virgin , jesus fed 5,000 with a few fish and bread
and noah got 2 of every animal on the planet onto 1 ark ,, :doh

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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:42 pm 
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There are two sides to every debate and in this case feelings clearly are very strong.
There is a risk of this thread degenerating into a slanging match.
Both sides, me included, have had their say. I say let's leave it at that.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:05 pm 
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I have, since the age of 12, been pro Israel, but they should have looked at the timing of their announcement re
Jerusalem, which couldn't have come at a worse time. Unfortunately Trump will jump on any bandwagon at the
moment in order to deflect from his possible impeachment. Regrettably, this will only serve to makes the situation
worse in this part of the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:23 pm 
exodus wrote:
There are two sides to every debate and in this case feelings clearly are very strong.
There is a risk of this thread degenerating into a slanging match.
Both sides, me included, have had their say. I say let's leave it at that.
Amos.

When you cant debate, you want no one else too. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:36 pm 
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COYS wrote:
exodus wrote:
There are two sides to every debate and in this case feelings clearly are very strong.
There is a risk of this thread degenerating into a slanging match.
Both sides, me included, have had their say. I say let's leave it at that.
Amos.

When you cant debate, you want no one else too. :roll:


What's to debate? We have all said our bit. You'll just have to agree to disagree.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Many years ago for three years I worked as a warehouse manager, the company was owned by Jewish people, when I got to know them they turned out to be very nice people, honest and hard working with high values of life.
One day I asked the owner to explain about the conflict surrounding the state of Israel, this is was the answer and from the heart.
Jewish and Palestinian people are nomads (BC) and basically come from the area known as Egypt, they both arrived in their present countries about the same time and both laid claim to the land (sound familiar) and as two opposing factions fought battles for centuries and will do so for many years to come.
Knowing I was ex army said what about your Ireland problem is that not the same, I will not bore you with the rest of the conversation but to say, Israel stands up for itself and if you look at our history we are not innocent, the answer is in history, he said read the history of Israel then you may understand, so I did and I am now a more enlightened.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:33 am 
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lowvoltage wrote:
Many years ago for three years I worked as a warehouse manager, the company was owned by Jewish people, when I got to know them they turned out to be very nice people, honest and hard working with high values of life.
One day I asked the owner to explain about the conflict surrounding the state of Israel, this is was the answer and from the heart.
Jewish and Palestinian people are nomads (BC) and basically come from the area known as Egypt, they both arrived in their present countries about the same time and both laid claim to the land (sound familiar) and as two opposing factions fought battles for centuries and will do so for many years to come.
Knowing I was ex army said what about your Ireland problem is that not the same, I will not bore you with the rest of the conversation but to say, Israel stands up for itself and if you look at our history we are not innocent, the answer is in history, he said read the history of Israel then you may understand, so I did and I am now a more enlightened.


:goodpost
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 am 
lowvoltage wrote:
Many years ago for three years I worked as a warehouse manager, the company was owned by Jewish people, when I got to know them they turned out to be very nice people, honest and hard working with high values of life.
One day I asked the owner to explain about the conflict surrounding the state of Israel, this is was the answer and from the heart.
Jewish and Palestinian people are nomads (BC) and basically come from the area known as Egypt, they both arrived in their present countries about the same time and both laid claim to the land (sound familiar) and as two opposing factions fought battles for centuries and will do so for many years to come.
Knowing I was ex army said what about your Ireland problem is that not the same, I will not bore you with the rest of the conversation but to say, Israel stands up for itself and if you look at our history we are not innocent, the answer is in history, he said read the history of Israel then you may understand, so I did and I am now a more enlightened.

Asking a Jewish person about the conflict in Israel, nothing like getting an unbiased view :crylaughin


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:58 am 
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Hi Coys I agree to a point and I agree both sides have their hands tarnished and stained with blood, however to fully understand the differences may I suggest that members read two books called.
1.Israel a History by Martin Gilbert (I think you can still get this) 2. Birth of the Palestinian by Benny Morris.
If you do read these books then some of the comments on here will stop and possibly be retracted, that said healthy debate is OK if all the facts are known.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:17 am 
lowvoltage wrote:
Hi Coys I agree to a point and I agree both sides have their hands tarnished and stained with blood, however to fully understand the differences may I suggest that members read two books called.
1.Israel a History by Martin Gilbert (I think you can still get this) 2. Birth of the Palestinian by Benny Morris.
If you do read these books then some of the comments on here will stop and possibly be retracted, that said healthy debate is OK if all the facts are known.
mate its very simple..the only way you will ever get peace is to have two states living side by side, Israel while backed by the USA will never agree to this, while Palestinians live in open prisons in inhumane conditions , they have a ready made supply of angry young men who will strap bombs and do evil deeds.....both have committed war crimes, no one is innocent, so the game goes on and on.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Not sure about the Benny Morris book, but Martin Gilbert is a self professed Zionist and his work cannot be considered objective.

Thanks for the suggestions though.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Israel and Palestine will always divide opinion.
Well this is what I love about this forum, members who know how to debate without being nasty.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:06 pm 
Effsie wrote:
Not sure about the Benny Morris book, but Martin Gilbert is a self professed Zionist and his work cannot be considered objective.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Correct theres isnt a bigger pro Zionist then Gilbert...anyone who's looking for a fair book, shouldn't bother with anything Gilbert pens.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:15 pm 
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A resolution here and in many there spheres will never be allowed to happen, the arms industry and banks simply make way too much money from the strife...

Its just a pity so many normal people and poisoned generations are involved.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:52 am 
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looks like the world slapped them on the face last night at the G.A meeting
the yanks wont like that ..

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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:39 pm 
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Neil wrote:
looks like the world slapped them on the face last night at the G.A meeting
the yanks wont like that ..


You are right, they won't.
However with Mr Trump it won't make a jot of difference, he is an action man and just gets on with his well known (in advance at the time of his election) agenda.
Like him I don't care what others think about him.
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:33 pm 
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I agree that it probably won't make a jot of difference to Trump but, sadly, that isn't how diplomacy and politics works.

In order to appease one country, he has alienated himself from just about all the others!

He tried to blackmail them into voting with him and that plainly didn't work.

Both you and he confidently said that other countries would follow suit and that clearly isn't happening either.

What he has actually done, IMHO, is to destabilise the entire region and open up the American (and Israeli) people to a new wave of attacks and terrorism.

Well done Donald!


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Effsie wrote:
I agree that it probably won't make a jot of difference to Trump but, sadly, that isn't how diplomacy and politics works.

In order to appease one country, he has alienated himself from just about all the others!

He tried to blackmail them into voting with him and that plainly didn't work.

Both you and he confidently said that other countries would follow suit and that clearly isn't happening either.

What he has actually done, IMHO, is to destabilise the entire region and open up the American (and Israeli) people to a new wave of attacks and terrorism.

Well done Donald!



He may well have "alienated" the USA from a lot of countries but its mainly because the other countries rely on Arab oil and will do anything to avoid upsetting them .

The USA on the other hand is virtually self sufficient in oil and is therefore not worried what they think.

Will the countries that he "alienated" stop trading with the USA, I dont think so!



Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:36 pm 
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According to the US Energy Information Administration, the US imports 25 % of their oil, around 10.1 million barrels per day, from 70 different countries.

That is why they (like the UK) have been happy to invade Middle Eastern countries to try and secure the supply.

The US cannot afford to fall out with the countries that supply its oil, nor can it afford to break trade ties as it relies heavily on both imports and exports. If the US is out of the loop, counties like China will rub their hands with glee and the US risks devastating its own economy and causing damage that they will find it very difficult to repair after other countries step in to fill the breech.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:06 pm 
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exodus wrote:
Neil wrote:
looks like the world slapped them on the face last night at the G.A meeting
the yanks wont like that ..


You are right, they won't.
However with Mr Trump it won't make a jot of difference, he is an action man and just gets on with his well known (in advance at the time of his election) agenda.
Like him I don't care what others think about him.
Amos.


Well you obviously do care what others think, otherwise why make that comment. When he eventually incites North Korea enough to cause a nuclear war, WELL AWAY FROM HIS OWN SHORES, perhaps you will think differently when contaminated air floats towards us here in Cyprus. Trump may well regret his interference in this region re Korea and Israel soon, because I cannot see Russia and China restraining themselves, admirably as they have so far, for much longer. He is not a politician, he is a rather Del Boy type of bussinessman who doesn't understand that, unlike business, you cannot ride roughshod over other countries without repercussions.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Effsie wrote:
According to the US Energy Information Administration, the US imports 25 % of their oil, around 10.1 million barrels per day, from 70 different countries.

That is why they (like the UK) have been happy to invade Middle Eastern countries to try and secure the supply.

The US cannot afford to fall out with the countries that supply its oil, nor can it afford to break trade ties as it relies heavily on both imports and exports. If the US is out of the loop, counties like China will rub their hands with glee and the US risks devastating its own economy and causing damage that they will find it very difficult to repair after other countries step in to fill the breech.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Quotes :- "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2016 were Canada, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Mexico, and Colombia". ..... + ..... "In 2016, the United States exported about 5.2 MMb/d of petroleum to 101 countries. Most of the exports were petroleum products. The resulting net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum were about 4.9 MMb/d.".
Nothing to do with Middle East exports, in that instance. I'm sure those countries would like to increase their exports. ... Selective reporting ?


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:35 pm 
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SFD wrote:
Effsie wrote:
According to the US Energy Information Administration, the US imports 25 % of their oil, around 10.1 million barrels per day, from 70 different countries.

That is why they (like the UK) have been happy to invade Middle Eastern countries to try and secure the supply.

The US cannot afford to fall out with the countries that supply its oil, nor can it afford to break trade ties as it relies heavily on both imports and exports. If the US is out of the loop, counties like China will rub their hands with glee and the US risks devastating its own economy and causing damage that they will find it very difficult to repair after other countries step in to fill the breech.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Quotes :- "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2016 were Canada, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Mexico, and Colombia". ..... + ..... "In 2016, the United States exported about 5.2 MMb/d of petroleum to 101 countries. Most of the exports were petroleum products. The resulting net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum were about 4.9 MMb/d.".
Nothing to do with Middle East exports, in that instance. I'm sure those countries would like to increase their exports. ... Selective reporting ?


Very selective.
The USA is more or less self sufficient for fossil fuels since the exploitation using fracking.
Regards N.Korea the sooner Trump takes out the loony tunes there the better, by whatever means necessary.
And I mean by whatever means.
Talking of which may I remind forum readers that the fact Israel has nuclear weapons at its disposal is the main reason our foes have not wiped us out - as they would like to.
Loony tunes like N.Korea, IS, Hammas, Hexbollah, etc, only understand one language...
Amos.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:10 pm 
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exodus wrote:
SFD wrote:
Effsie wrote:
According to the US Energy Information Administration, the US imports 25 % of their oil, around 10.1 million barrels per day, from 70 different countries.

That is why they (like the UK) have been happy to invade Middle Eastern countries to try and secure the supply.

The US cannot afford to fall out with the countries that supply its oil, nor can it afford to break trade ties as it relies heavily on both imports and exports. If the US is out of the loop, counties like China will rub their hands with glee and the US risks devastating its own economy and causing damage that they will find it very difficult to repair after other countries step in to fill the breech.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Quotes :- "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2016 were Canada, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Mexico, and Colombia". ..... + ..... "In 2016, the United States exported about 5.2 MMb/d of petroleum to 101 countries. Most of the exports were petroleum products. The resulting net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum were about 4.9 MMb/d.".
Nothing to do with Middle East exports, in that instance. I'm sure those countries would like to increase their exports. ... Selective reporting ?


Very selective.
The USA is more or less self sufficient for fossil fuels since the exploitation using fracking.
Regards N.Korea the sooner Trump takes out the loony tunes there the better, by whatever means necessary.
And I mean by whatever means.
Talking of which may I remind forum readers that the fact Israel has nuclear weapons at its disposal is the main reason our foes have not wiped us out - as they would like to.
Loony tunes like N.Korea, IS, Hammas, Hexbollah, etc, only understand one language...
Amos.




So, when your hero Trump, ignites nuclear war with North Korea, you will be happy to have the fallout affecting yourself, and us in Cyprus? Unbelievable are the stakes here, and as an Israeli, you seem to want to ignore the effects of this. You are truly unbelievable. You also seem to ignore the fact, that if Israel decides to use their nuclear weapons, then theirs, and your country, will aso be affected by the nuclear fallout for decades to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:35 pm 
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When I read people going on about nuclear weapons what people read on the internet I shudder.
I was an NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical) instructor in the Army, so I have a reasonable insight into the effect of Nuclear radiation and fall out so here are some facts that may give you a better insight into this deadly subject.

WW2 and the dropping of two nuclear bombs on Japan radiation dissipated after approx. 7 hours ( The rule for nuclear explosions is 7 times 7 times 7. After 7 hours, 90% of the radioactivity is gone), however the ground radiation remains for about 75 years.

Today, the background radiation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the same as the average amount of natural radiation present anywhere on Earth. It is not enough to affect human health.
Chernobyl released 200 times more radiation than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs combined, ask the poor Welsh farmers about the effects in Wales after Chernobyl and is still present today.

So going on about Nuclear weapons and use of them needs to be discussed carefully.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerusalem
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:42 pm 
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lowvoltage wrote:
When I read people going on about nuclear weapons what people read on the internet I shudder.
I was an NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical) instructor in the Army, so I have a reasonable insight into the effect of Nuclear radiation and fall out so here are some facts that may give you a better insight into this deadly subject.

WW2 and the dropping of two nuclear bombs on Japan radiation dissipated after approx. 7 hours ( The rule for nuclear explosions is 7 times 7 times 7. After 7 hours, 90% of the radioactivity is gone), however the ground radiation remains for about 75 years.

Today, the background radiation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the same as the average amount of natural radiation present anywhere on Earth. It is not enough to affect human health.
Chernobyl released 200 times more radiation than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs combined, ask the poor Welsh farmers about the effects in Wales after Chernobyl and is still present today.

So going on about Nuclear weapons and use of them needs to be discussed carefully.

:clap :goodpost


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