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 Post subject: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Master

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Sea Caves
OAP needs help in a tenancy dispute.
I have a OAP friend who two years ago signed a four year contract, he admits he should have not have done so we all make mistakes.
The landlord says he is tied in and will not let him terminate the contract, he says he can leave but wants the rest of the rent due for the other two years.
He wants to leave as there are issues with the villa, cracks in the ceiling and mould also other issues that I will not bore you with.
What can he do if anything, can any of you good members suggest anything, he is at his wits end.
Thank you in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:07 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Cyprus, Argaka
He should write a letter to the landlord informing him of the problems with the property and giving him a reasonable time to rectify the faults ( perhaps three months?).
State that if the problems are not repaired within the specified time them he (the landlord) is breaking the lease by not maintaining the property.

See what happens.

Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 am
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Location: Peyia
Is there nothing in the agreement about 'notice' time from both parties?

Normally there is a clause that allows both parties to give 1 - 2 or 3 month warning to leaving the property, we definitely have this written into ours

And also is the agreement legally binding? A solicitor might be able to advice you on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:32 am
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Unless the contract is stamped and registered (which most aren't as it means the landlord becomes liable for tax) then it is not enforceable, which means he can just pack up and leave whenever he wishes. I appreciate that the landlord, particularly if he is local, may have something to say about it, but AFAIK he has no legal rights.

Where does your friend want to move to? If it's not local he can just tell the landlord that he has to return to the UK for medical reasons, or perhaps because his former employer has gone bust and he has lost his pension. If the landlord thinks he can't afford to pay the rent, he will soon let him leave!


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:30 pm
Posts: 1990
Location: UK/ex Peyia
Having rented 2 properties in Cyprus one thing we do know is that most contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.
Question 1 What nationality is his landlord.
Question 2 Was the contract drawn up by a lawyer, stamped and registered.
Question 3 Has the landlord been made aware of all the defects and has he/she rectified them.

As others have said, q1 and 2 need answering in the affirmative to hold any credibility.

I hope your friend can get this matter dealt with quickly and with no stress, we don't need it at any age but even more so when you are older and in a foreign country.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:00 am 
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Master

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Sea Caves
Thanks for all the replies, for confidentiality reasons I cannot say who he is but only this, he male and a single person aged 75 and lives in Peyia.

The Landlord is Cypriot, the contract is written on what is best described as a pre-printed which anyone one can do on a PC using Word, signed by the Landlord the Client and witnessed by a representative from one of the trip organisers in Coral Bay, not stamped or on headed paper, I asked him how he pays his rent he says into the Landlords bank account every three months.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:38 am 
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 1:08 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Peyia
Maybe it wouldn't hurt to put a scan of this contract here, without any personal details of course.

What matters only is exact wording. My last two years contract had stated that "Landlord has right to demand the rest of the amount in court", but this statement being put in rental agreement is laughable because anyone has right to demand anything from anyone else in court already, without any contracts.

With the same success they could put in the contract something even more stupid, like "The Landlord has right to vote in election of President of Cyprus". We all have some rights (or at least seem to), doesn't mean we should list all of them in the rental agreement.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Master

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Sea Caves
Andy, that is a good Idea, I am seeing him tomorrow ask will ask, I am sure he will not mind as like you said erase his private details which I can do.
He is very upset about this and I like to think we can all help.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:50 pm 
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the landloird is trying to bully him , dont let this happen, tell him to give months notice
and leave..

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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Idol

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:16 pm
Posts: 686
People do worry more about everything as they get older. I.E yours truly.. Maybe tell your friend that if his landlord went all the way and took him to court he will have received his 100th birthday congratulations off the queen (or king ) before a ruling is made.
Selling an apartment a few years ago I went to the electricity dept here to pay my last bill and get clearance for the sale.The lady said that she could not give me clearance because there were two payments I had missed some five or six years previously.Of course i checked this out and sure enough she was right.When I told her she was right and apologised for my oversight i asked her why did she not chase me for the payments I had missed..Her reply "to much fuss"


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:30 pm
Posts: 1990
Location: UK/ex Peyia
Thank you for answering my questions.
He has nothing to worry about, he gives 3 months notice as that is how he pays his rent, deducts 1 months rent from his final payment ( no doubt he paid a month extra up front?) and leaves. The document has little meaning as it is not stamped or registered, his health is at risk from the state of the property and finally his landlord will not take him to court.From my experience, Cypriots don't take anything to court as it takes too long, costs money and their own linen is aired in public.
Good luck to your friend, hope he gets his life back to normal.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 1:08 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Peyia
Before we even start to speak about court - let's see the contract first. I'm sure there is nothing to go to court with.

And I'm agree with Beverly's point that they wouldn't go anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:32 am
Posts: 290
AndyCY wrote:
Before we even start to speak about court - let's see the contract first.

The OP says in an earlier post that the contract is not stamped, which also means that it isn't registered and therefore is not enforceable, so there isn't really any need to see the contract.

The gentleman needs to make his own decision, but if it were me, I would give the landlord not less than one month's notice, but only after I had moved out and not given him a forwarding address!


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:58 pm
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And notify the tax office, they are clamping down tax evasion, not saying he is not paying but would seem unlikely the way he is conducting himself


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:30 pm
Posts: 1990
Location: UK/ex Peyia
I don't know how true this is but I was told that tax is only payable on holiday rentals not long term ones which is why you rarely if ever see Cypriots renting out to holidaymakers unless they own an hotel.
I was also told that you have to register a property with the CTO if renting to holidaymakers but not to long term renters.
Look after their own don't they.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:32 am
Posts: 290
beverley wrote:
I don't know how true this is but I was told that tax is only payable on holiday rentals not long term ones.

They have to pay tax on the income from the long term rental.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:32 pm 
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So much miss information here -you lot should see a lawyer.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:32 am
Posts: 290
Polemi Dave wrote:
So much miss information here -you lot should see a lawyer.

Can you please clarify the information that you believe to be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:32 am 
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Idol
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:15 pm
Posts: 729
Location: Peyia
beverley wrote:
Thank you for answering my questions.
He has nothing to worry about, he gives 3 months notice as that is how he pays his rent, deducts 1 months rent from his final payment ( no doubt he paid a month extra up front?) and leaves. The document has little meaning as it is not stamped or registered, his health is at risk from the state of the property and finally his landlord will not take him to court.From my experience, Cypriots don't take anything to court as it takes too long, costs money and their own linen is aired in public.
Good luck to your friend, hope he gets his life back to normal.


I think this is about the best advice your friend will get without paying for it.

Couple of additional mistakes to avoid.

Don't assume that being reasonable about your departure will engender reciprocal behaviour on the part of your landlord. You should be as unreasonable as your conscience will allow. Your landlord almost certainly will and, given that they have not being doing required maintenance and repair, their threshold is probably lower than yours

Supervise the termination of utilities yourself, and don't leave it to the landlord, you will be liable for the debts on your account until you do.

Things to file under interesting, but probably inconsequential

Under EU consumer/tenancy directives, any tenancy agreement longer than a year must be in writing and witnessed by at least two witnesses, so if your contract only has a single witness it is automatically invalid

What little Cypriot case law that exists in this area [as someone has remarked these things rarely get to court] suggests that, as a tenancy agreement gives the tenant the right to FULL beneficial use of a property, and failures of landlords to make repairs may restrict that full use, then failure to carry out repairs constitutes a previous breach, and therefore you cannot breach contract that is already breached

Good luck, and tell your friend not to worry about moving, his landlord has much less power than he would have him believe


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Effsie wrote:
Polemi Dave wrote:
So much miss information here -you lot should see a lawyer.

Can you please clarify the information that you believe to be wrong.


I don't think you would accept it if I did. I had to pay a lawyer to draw up the lease we use, to get her to tell me when a lease must be registered of not, how binding the terms are - you should do the same, or stick with your opinion.
The person only this really mattes to in the complainant, for the rest it is a Sunday afternoon "I think that".


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Master

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:35 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Paphos
Some tenants I know have properly drawn up rental agreements and when they terminate the lease before its due time are required to pay the remainder of the lease (apart from one person who managed to find someone to take over her property).

However, in the past year I know three tenants who have been given 1-2 months notice to vacate the property because the owner wanted to sell it, regardless of the fact that there was still a considerable amount of time left on the lease. They all moved out as requested.

Doesn't seem right that a tenant should be expected to pay for any remaining time left on a lease if they give notice and the owner does not have to offer similar recompense.

My current 'lease' is in the form of an email and about two sentences long!


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:32 am
Posts: 290
Polemi Dave wrote:
Effsie wrote:
Polemi Dave wrote:
So much miss information here -you lot should see a lawyer.

Can you please clarify the information that you believe to be wrong.


I don't think you would accept it if I did. I had to pay a lawyer to draw up the lease we use, to get her to tell me when a lease must be registered of not, how binding the terms are - you should do the same, or stick with your opinion.
The person only this really mattes to in the complainant, for the rest it is a Sunday afternoon "I think that".

It's not really about whether I, or anyone else, would accept your comments. Surely it is about ensuring that the OP, and anyone else who reads this thread, has accurate information.

If you have reason to believe that any of the comments above are incorrect, then please share your thoughts, either for the benefit of all the members, or to promote discussion to establish what information is, or isn't correct.

My comment was to try and establish the accuracy of the posts above, rather than to provoke any kind of argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:38 am 
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Master

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Sea Caves
Hello, Sorry for the delay in producing the contract, I have removed all personal details and left you with the rest, on page four there are four signatures, the tenant (removed) the agent and two others which I have been told is the landlord and his wife.
I have taken photos of the damages in his house, there is hardly any room that has not got cracks in the ceilings or walls also mould in the corners of the ceiling.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:30 pm
Posts: 1990
Location: UK/ex Peyia
My goodness, the landlord certainly saw him coming didn't he?
1100 euros a month , no animals, unfurnished and tenant maintains the pool? Unless he is a qualified pool person then that is illegal to start with.
If the 2 signatures are the landlord and wife then I believe that it wouldn't stand up in court.
Your friend needs to just move out and let him get on with it quoting the landlords lack of maintainance etc impacting on his health etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:07 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Cyprus, Argaka
What a terrible contract and a huge rent!!

Paid in cash ?

It seems that the landlord has no obligation with regard to maintenance of the property !

Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Idol

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:33 pm
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Location: Previously Ypsonas, Limassol (Mar 2004 to Apr 2016) Now: Knott End on Sea, UK
Yes Terry, that's what I saw too.... there's nothing to indicate the Landlord has to do anything except pocket a rather large rental income each and every month.

To the OP, tell your friend to get out as fast as possible, make sure the bills are all cancelled in the tenants name and are paid up to date so there's absolutely no comeback whatsoever. Find another place that's not so heavily in favour of the landlord.... that's a ridiculous contract!

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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:34 am 
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Master

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Sea Caves
UPDATE,
Me and my wife took my friend Peter (can use his first name) to see Gwenny with a copy of the contract, she laughed and said just walk away it is as very poor contract, it would not even get to court. Peter has seen a nice lady in Land and Sea who has found him a nice apartment in Peyia will be moving next month.
Told the landlord he is getting no more money huffed and puffed a bit but said nothing else, so a good result all round.
Peter has asked me to pass on his appreciation to the members who helped and the kind words, I also would like to say thank you for advice given.
Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Idol

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:33 pm
Posts: 709
Location: Previously Ypsonas, Limassol (Mar 2004 to Apr 2016) Now: Knott End on Sea, UK
That's great news and your friend must feel very relieved after all the worry. Soon he will be able to sleep easily in his bed in a new place and his life can start again....

Thanks for posting an update. It's always appreciated to get to hear the outcome!

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Busy exploring England's green & pleasant lands since May 2016 after 12yrs in Cyprus.
There appears to be a misapprehension I run a photography business... it's my passion as a hobby.
I sell and buy postage stamps!


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 Post subject: Re: Tenancy Contract
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:30 pm
Posts: 1990
Location: UK/ex Peyia
Thank you for the update. Glad to hear that he has a good outcome and that he will enjoy his new abode.


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