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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:05 am 
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Huge fire in London Tower Block, police and fire confirm there are fatalities but numbers not known


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:55 am 
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Very sad.
Many questions will be asked, and will need to be answered, about the fire security/H&S of this building.
In particular about the recently fitted cladding which seems to have been inflammable, and spread upwards rapidly, getting so hot the concrete of the walls cracked and much of it fell away.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:06 am 
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Is that correct, about the cladding? I have not read anything like that. They are still trying to put the fire out and recover bodies.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:36 am 
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For artlin
Quote:
The BBC's Claire Heald has spoken to a woman called Zeinab at the scene.
She says: "There wasn't any other fire exit, except the staircase where the fire was coming.
"My youngest sister-in-law and my father-in-law were stuck. I was taken out but then lost contact with my father.
"The building has been redone on the outside, a cover - some kind of plastic has been put on it and the windows done.
"The fire went under a new cover which had been put on with wooden slats. Most of the residents were worried about this.
"We had meetings about the works and were worried it would happen."


And apparently, there have been several incidents over recent years by the company in charge of the running and maintenance of this and other tower blocks.

This blog article from the Grenfell Action Group was posted in November 2016.
Quote:
It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO, and bring an end to the dangerous living conditions and neglect of health and safety legislation that they inflict upon their tenants and leaseholders. We believe that the KCTMO are an evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia who have no business to be charged with the responsibility of looking after the every day management of large scale social housing estates and that their sordid collusion with the RBKC Council is a recipe for a future major disaster.

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... with-fire/

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:58 pm 
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artlin wrote:
Is that correct, about the cladding? I have not read anything like that. They are still trying to put the fire out and recover bodies.


Yes it is correct. If you tune into SKY News UK, or the BBC News Channel, they give full coverage and analysis, including that particular issue.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:26 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:
artlin wrote:
Is that correct, about the cladding? I have not read anything like that. They are still trying to put the fire out and recover bodies.


Yes it is correct. If you tune into SKY News UK, or the BBC News Channel, they give full coverage and analysis, including that particular issue.
Geoff.


Emma Dent Coad (new Labour MP for Kensington & Chelsea .... and former Town Councillor for the same area) will have a lot of investigating to do re. the Council's 'refurbishments' of that tower block, last year !
And ... Corbyn's Labour party had promised to provide more safe housing in their recent manifesto ? !!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Latest news, 6 confirmed dead and at least 50 in hospital, the fire has restarted and debris s falling hampering rescue attempts, authorities say expect the death toll to rise once fire crews can gain access.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Watching it unfold on the TV and it looks horrendous. Poor people what a terrifying ordeal and not ideal for the fire service who have just been overwhelmed by the ferocity of the fire and the speed with which it spread.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Have never ever understood why capital cities around the world have found it neccessary to build such high blocks. It will be useful to know what level the fire started on, and how.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
Have never ever understood why capital cities around the world have found it neccessary to build such high blocks. It will be useful to know what level the fire started on, and how.


The TV reports today suggest it started in a flat on the 4th floor.
Regards how, one resident, also on the 4/F, said a woman came out of her flat screaming her fridge had exploded and caught fire.
He escaped straight away, don't know about the woman, he did not say.
Just how a fridge on fire would spread so quickly to the outside cladding I don't know. I guess they will be able to establish the facts fairly quickly.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:32 pm 
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So a woman called Zeinab is the source for stating that it was the cladding that is to blame?

SFD, was it really necessary to say that? Unbelievable! !


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:22 pm 
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Artlin, I agree with your comments.
The blame game can start later, for now lets reflect at what those poor soles have lost.

I have seen most things in my life, watching tonight's news left me speechless with shock, all I can say as a Mancunian is thank you to the Londoners who have shown such kindness and comfort to complete strangers, they came from all walks of life colours and creeds to help those in a desperate state their lives will have been changed forever.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:43 pm 
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lowvoltage wrote:
Artlin, I agree with your comments.
The blame game can start later, for now lets reflect at what those poor soles have lost.

I have seen most things in my life, watching tonight's news left me speechless with shock, all I can say as a Mancunian is thank you to the Londoners who have shown such kindness and comfort to complete strangers, they came from all walks of life colours and creeds to help those in a desperate state their lives will have been changed forever.


:clap :clap


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:21 am 
Wavy Dave wrote:
Have never ever understood why capital cities around the world have found it neccessary to build such high blocks. It will be useful to know what level the fire started on, and how.

Very simple answer, lack of space, creates the need to build upwards.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:07 pm 
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COYS wrote:
Wavy Dave wrote:
Have never ever understood why capital cities around the world have found it neccessary to build such high blocks. It will be useful to know what level the fire started on, and how.

Very simple answer, lack of space, creates the need to build upwards.



I take your point, but since the 70's these places have been a magnet for crime against the residents. When we talk about shortage of space, there are plenty of wide open spaces in Britain, instead of packing people into dangerous, cramped buildings like these in a city.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:23 pm 
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But the places where people need to be for work, transport, schools, shopping, every day activities and be with family etc - are not out in the wide open spaces.....

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
When we talk about shortage of space, there are plenty of wide open spaces in Britain, instead of packing people into dangerous, cramped buildings like these in a city.


E.g. Cheshire, Co. Durham, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire.

Lots of housing potential in these places.

Slight drawback would be ..

Distance to minimal wage job, transport links, no local facilities, etc, etc.

But a good point nevertheless.

Mind you, if you move everyone out to the wide open spaces then the inner cities will be "safe" again.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:57 pm 
Theres Rural crime too....the answer is to come down on crime hard....but dont hold your breath.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:59 pm 
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Fylde Filly wrote:
But the places where people need to be for work, transport, schools, shopping, every day activities and be with family etc - are not out in the wide open spaces.....


I think the problem is, that people in other smaller cities throughout Britain don't want these people in their midst, for whatever reason. So London, Manchester, Glasgow, Cardiff and many other cities are expected to house them, albeit in unsafe housing.
Many of the rural areas really don't want them, even if industry were persuaded to locate there. Your posting proves my point.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:38 am 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
Fylde Filly wrote:
But the places where people need to be for work, transport, schools, shopping, every day activities and be with family etc - are not out in the wide open spaces.....


I think the problem is, that people in other smaller cities throughout Britain don't want these people in their midst, for whatever reason. So London, Manchester, Glasgow, Cardiff and many other cities are expected to house them, albeit in unsafe housing.
Many of the rural areas really don't want them, even if industry were persuaded to locate there. Your posting proves my point.


"These people"? What on this earth do you mean by that statement?

Are they lepers, plague carriers?

The statements made on this forum are sometimes truly staggering.

Bigotted, prejudiced, racist. Just so wrong in every way. It reminds me of a different era when we had a class system and people were told to know their place.

Is that how you see it? Us and them, oi poloi and riff raff, gentry and oiks.

Staggering, truly staggering.

"These people" have lost everything. Home, furniture, pessions, relatives and friends. Are you now begrudging them a place in "your" community?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:15 am 
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It makes me sick to the teeth artlin....
I just wonder how many of the people who post as they do here would do the same if they were in UK on a UK forum, instead of sitting back on an island in the med feeling safe and secure.

Come and see how some people have to live and what they have to put up with living in rented accommodation when the landlord never comes to see or updates their properties that the councils keep paying around £500 a month for. Nobody checks privately tenanted property and landlords tend to have multiple properties.

In Blackpool, buy to let properties were being purchased by landlords down south before they even went on the market and without even being viewed. Buying 5 to 10 at a time when we were looking to buy last January....

Just pure greed!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:28 am 
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artlin wrote:
Wavy Dave wrote:
Fylde Filly wrote:
But the places where people need to be for work, transport, schools, shopping, every day activities and be with family etc - are not out in the wide open spaces.....


I think the problem is, that people in other smaller cities throughout Britain don't want these people in their midst, for whatever reason. So London, Manchester, Glasgow, Cardiff and many other cities are expected to house them, albeit in unsafe housing.
Many of the rural areas really don't want them, even if industry were persuaded to locate there. Your posting proves my point.


"These people"? What on this earth do you mean by that statement?

Are they lepers, plague carriers?

The statements made on this forum are sometimes truly staggering.

Bigotted, prejudiced, racist. Just so wrong in every way. It reminds me of a different era when we had a class system and people were told to know their place.

Is that how you see it? Us and them, oi poloi and riff raff, gentry and oiks.

Staggering, truly staggering.

"These people" have lost everything. Home, furniture, pessions, relatives and friends. Are you now begrudging them a place in "your" community?



Artlin, as usual you have taken comments totally out of context. I was actually stating that the people who lived in that awful building, were there because they were all brushed aside by much of communities around Britain who don't want them on their doorstep. That Mr Artlin is what I was saying. Many who live in rural communities, like one or two posters on here, don't want them anywhere near their comfortable community do they? So I am being racist then by saying that is part of the reason they were shepherded into an unfit building, and then taken advantage of presumably with high rents, because London had the job of housing them, when other councils up and down the country could have probably done a lot more in offering housing. So please, in future don't try and besmirch me with your stupid racist comments, because it is your comments that are "staggering". As for moans about us here daring to make a comment about there, that is rich coming from a person who dare not put his location!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:49 am 
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The fact of the mater is that there are all sorts of victims of the lunatic London property market and the UK inner cities are a magnet for all sorts of people looking to earn a living. For those born in the UK outside London the appeal might not be so urgent or great, but for asylum seekers, economic migrants and illegal immigrants it the prime objective location.

Demand is therefore always going to outstrip supply, safe occupancy numbers are always going to be exceeded and tower blocks such as this one that are way past their sell by date are being to be kept operational simply because the alternatives are too expensive. The cladding that caused this problem appears to be little more than a cosmetic addition to make them look more modern and desirable than they ever could be

Those are the issues that need to be addressed. I don't know of anyone who could fail to be moved by what happened in London this week, but outlining the circumstances that have brought this about does not make Wavy Dave or anyone else racist or contemptuous of "these people" because for "these people" those are their circumstances and even for the UK government some of those circumstances are entirely outwith their control


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
Wavy Dave wrote:

I think the problem is, that people in other smaller cities throughout Britain don't want these people in their midst, for whatever reason. So London, Manchester, Glasgow, Cardiff and many other cities are expected to house them, albeit in unsafe housing.
Many of the rural areas really don't want them, even if industry were persuaded to locate there. Your posting proves my point.





Artlin, as usual you have taken comments totally out of context. I was actually stating that the people who lived in that awful building, were there because they were all brushed aside by much of communities around Britain who don't want them on their doorstep. That Mr Artlin is what I was saying. Many who live in rural communities, like one or two posters on here, don't want them anywhere near their comfortable community do they? So I am being racist then by saying that is part of the reason they were shepherded into an unfit building, and then taken advantage of presumably with high rents, because London had the job of housing them, when other councils up and down the country could have probably done a lot more in offering housing. So please, in future don't try and besmirch me with your stupid racist comments, because it is your comments that are "staggering". As for moans about us here daring to make a comment about there, that is rich coming from a person who dare not put his location!!!


I have taken nothing out of context, I am referring directly to your post.

The whole tone of your comment is still wrong!
"Shepherded into an unfit building" , "taken advantage of", "brushed aside"?

I just cannot fathom out any of what you are saying.

What do you mean when you say people don't want them near their rural communities?

They are not aliens from another planet, these are human beings mostly British citizens.

It is not me making stupid racist comments.

I truly believe that you have no understanding whatsoever of the situation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:40 pm 
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I'm with you, Artlin.
I don't understand the generalisation "these people", as if Grenfell Tower was a hostel for the homeless, or a refugee centre, or a halfway house for recoverIng addicts! Some people are so steeped in bigotry that they don't even recognise it in themselves.
Trisha


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Many of "these people" live in London or other cities because there are no jobs in rural areas.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Travelingal and Zorba, spot on, quite right.

To quote ILEX


"UK inner cities are a magnet for all sorts of people looking to earn a living. For those born in the UK outside London the appeal might not be so urgent or great, but for asylum seekers, economic migrants and illegal immigrants it is the prime objective location. "

Earning a living is the prime objective for all sorts of people like asylum seekers and migrants, even illegal ones. Well, I am glad we sorted that issue out.

So, let us shepherd "these people" into an unsafe tower block in London because there are no jobs for them in the countryside where we live.

Have I got that about right? I hope so because this is quite a steep learning curve.

Having got them into the tower block we can now charge them exorbitant rents for the slum that they live in and when we refurbish the block we can cut corners by not installing a sprinkler system.

Am I still on track here?

So, just who is to blame for all this? Which local authority has jurisdiction here? I had to look it up with that Google thing.

Westminster and Chelsea it said.

And which party is in control in that region?

.......................


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:33 pm 
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I started this post and shared my sadness with all over this tragedy, I was not going to say anymore but having seen some of the reply's I will again post.
Over the weeks Artlin and I have had some disagreements but I fully support his comments.
Lets put the record straight about migration and outside cities.
Inner cities have more resources than the towns and villages or as you say rural areas,they do not have the same funding, infrastructure or the means to house these people.
No one is saying they cannot live there, look at Lincolnshire (where I lived before coming here) it is in trouble because the eastern Europeans moved in, the council is strapped for cash because the tax raised per head in low because the population is smaller and the Government will not fund as much as is required.

Stop this slanging match and respect the poor people of the London tragedy, if you want to have a go at each other open a new topic to vent yourselves, please have some respect.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Now for a more positive approach.

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding ... nfelltower

Use your facebook account to donate whatever you can to the survivors of this tragedy. They will have a lot of costs in the coming months. Not just replacement furniture and clothing but a whole life to rebuild. Maybe, funeral costs.

Forego you normal Saturday night out and give a thought to someone else.

Thank you, paphos people.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:31 pm 
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I am not talking about shepherding people into substandard accommodation :evil:

There should be no substandard accommodation in the UK, but when you open up a wealthy country to such an extent that the poorest in the UK have to compete with the even poorer from other countries for jobs and accommodation the very nature of globalisation and corporate and individual greed drives living standards down for those poorest , and the decline of living standards for ordinary people in the UK is something I personally find repugnant

London house prices and rental charges are now unaffordable for all but a minority- that has come about because of a buy to let culture replacing actual entrepreneurial skill and London being opened up to all sorts of UK and foreign investment that bears no relation to social needs.

Everyone in the EU can buy up London property as an investment and every Chinese and Russian can buy an EU passport and do the same - that is the root cause of the problem. It may be the case that we indeed now need some sort of socialist and/or discriminatory system to sort out the whole London property mess, but that is currently impossible because of "single market" regulations

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the system and that can only happen if we get a fair government able to enforce practical regulations- reverting to property grab as Corbyn has suggested most assuredly is not the solution


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Ilex wrote:
The fact of the mater is that there are all sorts of victims of the lunatic London property market and the UK inner cities are a magnet for all sorts of people looking to earn a living. For those born in the UK outside London the appeal might not be so urgent or great, but for asylum seekers, economic migrants and illegal immigrants it the prime objective location.

Demand is therefore always going to outstrip supply, safe occupancy numbers are always going to be exceeded and tower blocks such as this one that are way past their sell by date are being to be kept operational simply because the alternatives are too expensive. The cladding that caused this problem appears to be little more than a cosmetic addition to make them look more modern and desirable than they ever could be

Those are the issues that need to be addressed. I don't know of anyone who could fail to be moved by what happened in London this week, but outlining the circumstances that have brought this about does not make Wavy Dave or anyone else racist or contemptuous of "these people" because for "these people" those are their circumstances and even for the UK government some of those circumstances are entirely outwith their control



Thank you ILEX for understanding that I was actually trying to state that the people that lived in that high rise block were victims of unfortunate circumstances, and Should never have been put in that position of extreme danger.
To ARTLIN, I am sick and tired of your twisting peoples words to make yourself look big. You have been a troublemaker ever since you joined this site, and it is no wonder that some very long serving decent members no longer post on here. You are so obnoxious to be unbelievable, and don't ever tarnish me as being racist again. Enough is enough from you, and you need to start being careful of what you are accusing me of.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Ilex, sorry. I was not referring to you re. Shepherding. It was that Wavy bloke that said that.

However, I have to totally and absolutely agree with the remainder of your statement. Yes we have opened up the country. In order to recruit cheap labour to improve our wealth so that the rich get richer. Both UK and Foreign investors. Absolutely right. No one pays any attention to the "not so well off" because no one in authority ever notices them. They are the little people. The rich folk don't move in those circles. Even now, the local authority has done nothing to assist the survivors, it has all been volunteers. I would imagine that Paget Brown has been very busy ..... covering he's own arm-pit.

Wavy Dave.... all I can say is ..... Pardon?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:43 pm 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
Ilex wrote:
The fact of the mater is that there are all sorts of victims of the lunatic London property market and the UK inner cities are a magnet for all sorts of people looking to earn a living. For those born in the UK outside London the appeal might not be so urgent or great, but for asylum seekers, economic migrants and illegal immigrants it the prime objective location.

Demand is therefore always going to outstrip supply, safe occupancy numbers are always going to be exceeded and tower blocks such as this one that are way past their sell by date are being to be kept operational simply because the alternatives are too expensive. The cladding that caused this problem appears to be little more than a cosmetic addition to make them look more modern and desirable than they ever could be

Those are the issues that need to be addressed. I don't know of anyone who could fail to be moved by what happened in London this week, but outlining the circumstances that have brought this about does not make Wavy Dave or anyone else racist or contemptuous of "these people" because for "these people" those are their circumstances and even for the UK government some of those circumstances are entirely outwith their control



Thank you ILEX for understanding that I was actually trying to state that the people that lived in that high rise block were victims of unfortunate circumstances, and Should never have been put in that position of extreme danger.
To ARTLIN, I am sick and tired of your twisting peoples words to make yourself look big. You have been a troublemaker ever since you joined this site, and it is no wonder that some very long serving decent members no longer post on here. You are so obnoxious to be unbelievable, and don't ever tarnish me as being racist again. Enough is enough from you, and you need to start being careful of what you are accusing me of.
:goodpost
Considering that you are married to a lady from another country makes the thought of you being a "racist" quite ridiculous.
Obviously having a difference of opinion means we are open to these insults from this new member and I for one will not give him the benefit of a reply on any subject.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:01 am 
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Well said Beverley. This Artlin "bloke" didn't know that did he? Makes him look rather silly now. I wasn't going to mention it, because he probably wouldn't have believed it. As I said before, I was actually commiserating with those that had to live in that building, as circumstances forced it on them through no fault of theirs at all. As I also said, Artlin has been nothing but trouble since he recently joined this site, and I can only think he did so as an individual who enjoys throwing in grenades and then watching what happens. Just a pity that this web site has recently lost some darned good informative members recently due to the likes of him/her. Thank you again Beverley for putting the record straight. :bearhug


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:28 am 
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"I was actually commiserating with those that had to live in that building, as circumstances forced it on them through no fault of theirs at all"

I haven't read or heard anything that suggests this building was rundown or substandard. It was a mix of private and social housing with some owning their apartments.
Trisha


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:19 am 
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Tower blocks and the urban lifestyle they "provide" have been the cause of many of the social problems that blight today's society. I believe the can be made relatively safe (the cladding issue in this case appears to be a colossal post dated blunder) but they are not particularly pleasant environments for people to live

You'll get the gist from this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/ ... lives.html


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:43 am 
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The residents are causing problems shouting jeering and being a bitt of a nuisance, that said they are traumatised and it is natural to let off steam and they have just cause to, but venting their anger in the way they have will eventually cause them to lose public sympathy.
Demanding answers now is wrong, no one can give them answer's, it takes time to set up an enquiry, there is a lot to investigate before answers can be given, to attempt to give answers now you are likely to give out the wrong information as we have all seen in the past.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Wow all this disgruntlement and no Bassman involved. :greetings


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:07 pm 
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travellingal wrote:
"I was actually commiserating with those that had to live in that building, as circumstances forced it on them through no fault of theirs at all"

I haven't read or heard anything that suggests this building was rundown or substandard. It was a mix of private and social housing with some owning their apartments.
Trisha


So the complaints the residents made last November, which the local council have accepted were actually made, regarding safety standards, especially whilst all the new cladding was put on the outside of the building, leaving only one entrance and exit don't count then? That has been on BBC news on their website.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:48 pm 
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travellingal wrote:
"I was actually commiserating with those that had to live in that building, as circumstances forced it on them through no fault of theirs at all"

I haven't read or heard anything that suggests this building was rundown or substandard. It was a mix of private and social housing with some owning their apartments.
Trisha


As a BT engineer I worked on many high rise flats, most people aren't aware of what these flats replaced, they were initially luxurious compared to the back to back terraced houses with shared outside toilets that the first occupants used to live in.
Compared to what many of the current occupants left behind in their home countries they are still luxurious.
£10million was recently spent on this particular bloc ie recladding etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
travellingal wrote:
"I was actually commiserating with those that had to live in that building, as circumstances forced it on them through no fault of theirs at all"

I haven't read or heard anything that suggests this building was rundown or substandard. It was a mix of private and social housing with some owning their apartments.
Trisha


So the complaints the residents made last November, which the local council have accepted were actually made, regarding safety standards, especially whilst all the new cladding was put on the outside of the building, leaving only one entrance and exit don't count then? That has been on BBC news on their website.


Very true Dave, it would seem that nobody had learnt from the tragedies that occurred with other similar constructions in several locations in and outside the UK where identical exterior cladding was fitted and resulted in fires that cost lives.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:39 pm 
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M**********..SHARED POST
5 mins ·
Grenfell Towers Labour council built for a labour government----SadiQ Khan Housing minister in 2008--- As mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding---Emma Coad newly elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants. In 2010 sprinkler system was priced at £1150 per flat.
But for now we will stand by and watch Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell blame the Tories and personally attack Theresa May,
and bring our country into division and turmoil, while the families grieve for their lost ones.

_________________
All things are possible


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:17 pm 
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shania wrote:
M**********..SHARED POST
5 mins ·
Grenfell Towers Labour council built for a labour government----SadiQ Khan Housing minister in 2008--- As mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding---Emma Coad newly elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants. In 2010 sprinkler system was priced at £1150 per flat.
But for now we will stand by and watch Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell blame the Tories and personally attack Theresa May,
and bring our country into division and turmoil, while the families grieve for their lost ones.

I see that you have researched the previous work of Ms. Coad, too. (Did you see my comment re. her above ?).
As you indicate, pointing the finger at the present government does not take account of the previous council responsibilities.
No-one is perfect and many have been guilty of a 'Laissez-faire' attitude to their responsibilities over many years .... resulting in tragedy !


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:42 am 
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Wavy Dave wrote:

So the complaints the residents made last November, which the local council have accepted were actually made, regarding safety standards, especially whilst all the new cladding was put on the outside of the building, leaving only one entrance and exit don't count then? That has been on BBC news on their website.


Under the 'Right To Manage' Statutory Instrument passed by the [Labour] Government in 2002 [actually called the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act], responsibility for running the flats was taken from the Local Council and placed in the hands of a management committee made up of tenants/owners, local council representatives, and lay experts. In this case a body called the KCTMO

This was passed in the face of opposition [Tory] concerns that these inexpert bodies were not the optimal place for these decisions to be made

The decision not to install sprinklers was made by this body.

This decision was a perfectly legal one, as the [Labour] Government had passed another Statutory Instrument - the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 - which stated that inter alia, whilst sprinkler systems were compulsory for tower blocks, any block already completed or due for completion before 2007 was exempt from this requirement.

For both the 2002 and 2005 Acts, the PM was joined in the 'Aye' lobby by the Honourable Member for Islington North, a certain Mr Jeremy Corbyn.

The cladding was also requested and approved by the KCTMO, in response to the drive from the [Labour] Councils initiative to reduce its carbon footprint in line with Environmental concerns [and not as a purely decorative feature, as some have suggested].

One of the lay members of the KCTMO [the fire consultant], had spent some time in the US, and had commented that this particular cladding was considered unsafe and therefore banned from use, however the Labour and Green council representatives, along with several of the tenant representatives, decided that the environmental issues were the more pressing, and went ahead anyway.

The senior council representative on the KCTMO at the time was one Emma Coad

Emma Coad is currently the Labour Member of Parliament for Kensington and Chelsea.

Still, what a bunch of scum those Tories are, eh?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:36 am 
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Indeed- the hypocrisy of some involved in creating this mess or "commenting" on it defies belief :clap


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:23 am 
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Pete G wrote:
Wavy Dave wrote:

So the complaints the residents made last November, which the local council have accepted were actually made, regarding safety standards, especially whilst all the new cladding was put on the outside of the building, leaving only one entrance and exit don't count then? That has been on BBC news on their website.


Under the 'Right To Manage' Statutory Instrument passed by the [Labour] Government in 2002 [actually called the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act], responsibility for running the flats was taken from the Local Council and placed in the hands of a management committee made up of tenants/owners, local council representatives, and lay experts. In this case a body called the KCTMO

This was passed in the face of opposition [Tory] concerns that these inexpert bodies were not the optimal place for these decisions to be made

The decision not to install sprinklers was made by this body.

This decision was a perfectly legal one, as the [Labour] Government had passed another Statutory Instrument - the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 - which stated that inter alia, whilst sprinkler systems were compulsory for tower blocks, any block already completed or due for completion before 2007 was exempt from this requirement.

For both the 2002 and 2005 Acts, the PM was joined in the 'Aye' lobby by the Honourable Member for Islington North, a certain Mr Jeremy Corbyn.

The cladding was also requested and approved by the KCTMO, in response to the drive from the [Labour] Councils initiative to reduce its carbon footprint in line with Environmental concerns [and not as a purely decorative feature, as some have suggested].

One of the lay members of the KCTMO [the fire consultant], had spent some time in the US, and had commented that this particular cladding was considered unsafe and therefore banned from use, however the Labour and Green council representatives, along with several of the tenant representatives, decided that the environmental issues were the more pressing, and went ahead anyway.

The senior council representative on the KCTMO at the time was one Emma Coad

Emma Coad is currently the Labour Member of Parliament for Kensington and Chelsea.

Still, what a bunch of scum those Tories are, eh?


A clear cut case of the Kettle (Labour) calling the Pot (Conservatives) black.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Latest rumour regarding the Tower Block blaze is that an Ethiopian had sent his family out and already packed his bags when he reported an explosion and fire from a fridge in his flat. Hmmm


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:17 pm 
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"Latest rumour regarding the Tower Block blaze is that an Ethiopian had sent his family out and already packed his bags when he reported an explosion and fire from a fridge in his flat. Hmmm"

Presumably you can provide quantified links to this story?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:27 am 
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"Latest rumour regarding the Tower Block blaze is that an Ethiopian had sent his family out and already packed his bags when he reported an explosion and fire from a fridge in his flat. Hmmm"

"Latest rumour" - where?!
It disgusts me how much pleasure you seem to take from spreading rubbish.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:44 am 
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Personally I do not think for one minute he did that deliberately, there is another version that the man was a hero because he saved many lives, apparently he is absolutely devastated and will not talk to anyone.
This is a link from the express there are other, links just google it.
http://www.google.com.cy/url?sa=t&rct=j ... ss9AE2cJJQ


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