Paphos People

Following the escalating price of electricity here in Cyprus, we are considering the installation of
the installation of a Solar (photovoltaic) panel system.
We would be grateful to anyone who could provide insight & relate their experiences concerning a system of this type, particularly the return in respect to cost outlay.

_________________
I'll be back!

There are several posts on this topic already. Maybe this is a good place to start for info. I am sure Sergio will be along shortly

http://www.paphospeople.com/ppforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29662&hilit=Solar

_________________
Dave
Moira And Dave

“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”

Thanks M.A.D., a useful insight into what I thought to be a simple question!

Having dropped-off a couple of times during the technicle inter-changes involving Sergio, I'm looking for someone like Stormy, or Polemi Dave to 'clear the chaff' & offer up a summary of points concerning this form of power generation & ROI given the two years or so they have been using the system.

Hopefully they will not disappoint me?

_________________
I'll be back!

If your request would be more factual ... so far without basic numbers, eg how your household expect spend kWhs during typical year, talk about ROI is not feasible. While the aspect been posted there for more then one occasion. And ignoring a thread full of info from Polemi Dave and others doesn't look promising...

http://www.paphospeople.com/ppforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29662

IMO, data for calculate ROI: generation of 3kW system is 4000kWh/y, it will cost e5000, service fee e180/y.
Drop in here your yearly electricity consumption, and you'll end up with 10-15 years of ROI.

Had no regrets in having a PV system installed, just wished that 5KW service was available at the time of installation as it would have seriously reduced my gas for heating consumption throughout the winter season.
It was always a no brainer from the start. Don't listen to people who have not had the Net metering service from Cyprus for advice. Since we had ours installed many Cypriots in our village have followed suit.

_________________
I intend to live forever -- so far so good.

I have had panels for over 3 years now. Rather than go over all that has been previously posted again, you are welcome to come and see my installation and ask any questions you would like. Not this week though as I am shortly going into hospital for a couple of days.

However if you don't have a clear southerly facing location with no sunlight obstructions for most of the day - don't bother.
(even a single telegraph pole and lines can half your production.) You must have your building permit and permission of your developer if you have no deeds. The setup for 3KW will cost €5000 plus and a few hundred to EAC. Thereafter under normal usage you should have no electricity bills, other than various charges/ tax amounting to €16 a month.
You will probably make savings on other fuel during winter time, by using up electricity units made in summer in credit, if that is taken into account the payback period is 4/5 years.

5KW is proportionally more expensive in EAC charges and unless you are a heavy electricity user, is not worth the investment.
We have never entirely used up the units in credit at the end of February cut off. We use approximately 10 kwh per day (without electric fires) over the whole year and our generation exceeds this sufficiently to use bedroom electric fires in December ~ February from the saved units. We normally have about 700 units in hand just before Christmas.

I'm curious about the math, could you please show me where I'm wrong on my count ?
First, an initial calculation, we should get expenses: 5000+300(AiK)+180*5years=6200 for 5 years.
Now show please other side of your equation.

Sergio this was not posted for you. Topgun does not want the applied mathematics, and I can't remember the equations and substitutions from my school days, half a century ago.

If in any doubt you can take the moral high ground- be right and embarrass me for miscalculation. However two factors you cannot take into account are 1. the amount of electricity that passes from the inverter into the house, unmetered. 2. The cost of Gas, oil, kerosene or logs you will not have used because you have free electric.

So Sergio you can debate my maths all night. I am having none of it.

Dave , you got it personally, when I'm really try to see others opinion based on numbers, since the posted 4/5 years period is mush shorter then I counted for myself. Based on my spending for wood and propane ...
I'm really curious what on other side - at least estimated, for all that items in your last post.

Sergio I certainly did not take it personally. My calculations are "all back of a fag packet" and applicable to my circumstances.

One factor I do take into account is that bank interest is indeed almost zero, less 30%. I have had 3 1/4 years free electric, used more AC than I would have before PV and used a lot more electric fires in winter. For me I am getting my money's worth and I think that is all Topgun wants. I don't care if you break even in 6 years or 7 years, the point is you will get a break even and it differs from one user to another.

Try not to worry about the precise maths for others too much.

It was my attempt to give ROI number close to real household circumstances.

Follow your valuable points about non-metered solar energy usage, in my case it would be 2-3-5 kWh per day (fridge, VDSL modem, some appliances in standby mode, perhaps A/C during hot days) and a cost of fossil fuel (propane, logs) around e300/y, my ROI would still high(> 10 years). I knew that from beginning when did my own rough estimation.

Perhaps I did fixate on attempt calculate the value seen the keyword "ROI" in original request.
May be I'm more in the business, then need to be by regular customer. E.g what I would propose sitting in the business chair.

I have a 5 kWh system and been producing over 30kWh the last few days. My Panels face from South to South East due to the configuration of the Roof but still appears to give a good return. Whether I get a return on our investment I'm not overly concerned about but my Electric Bills are much cheaper so I no longer have a massive outlay every couple of months when the Electricity Bill comes in.

Jim

Thanks to Stormy, Polemi Dave & all contributors, I think I have now gained sufficient knowledge to discuss the various aspects with solar supply & installation companies.

I'll revert with any 'discovered' insights in due course.

_________________
I'll be back!

[b][/b]yeah, but your budget drained out when you did paid enormous amount for the install (my guess it was close to 10k)

Polemi Dave, as an ex electrical engineer with my own company I concur you are correct with your logic, take no notice of sergio he his just being his usual irritating self.

You're begin being irritating dude here, using each your empty post to insult me. Go on, your timer is ticking.

Sergio, am I getting under your skin well good now you know how it feels, you also come out with tosh like the post about the nhs and people with no brains opening emails, well I am sure they have a lot of brains because some were professors that opened the emails. Again if you attack me then reap it and if you persist you will leave me no choice to report you for Internet abuse.

We will decide who has a ticking clock!!
There are a few whose cuckoo won't be making much noise this summer

_________________
Dave
Moira And Dave

“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”

Sergio
The system cost €8500, not really that much more than a 3kWh system and appears to work fine. I'm looking at savings in the future and not outlay in the past.

Jim

My 3kW setup did cost me e5000 include VAT.
Perhaps we employed different companies.

I regret that once sergio enters any conversation here......................I go away.

Bye.


Alan

A thought that might help, I had solar panels and pump fitted on my pool, in summer the pump runs all the time and helps keep the pool clean, in addition I have noticed I do not use as much chemicals and my domestic electric is not being used which helps to lower the bill.
In winter as long as there is a enough day light the pump still runs, the company that installed the system said I should see a return in about 18 months to 2 years.
You will have to use mains power to clean the pool, the length of time you use mains is dependant on how long you vac for and backwash.
There are many companies that install systems but I used Shipshape, if anyone wants more info on what was installed PM and I will explain in detail with cots and if required photos.

How strange. We have 2 pools, each with photo voltaic panels to pump the pool, each installed by Andi Solartec. It is only on very cloudy days, if we absolutely NEED to vac, backwash or pump chemicals that we resort to using the old mains electric pump. Our Lorentz pumps and solar panels (705 watts) are "man enough" to cover vaccing, backwash, etc etc. on any except the most cloudy of days.

_________________
Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

PW thanks, I have the same system Lorentz 600 with three panels, I need to get this checked out because it is not doing what yours does, again thanks I will let you know how I get on.

Any chance to make independent from solar outage ? Install a few 12/24V batteries ...

Sergio, I am not an expert on photo voltaic, but as I understand it, you need specialised expensive batteries in order to store the pv power - and as cloudy days happen so infrequently here and it is even rarer that we need to pump/vac/back wash either of the pools on a cloudy day, we use mains electricity for the short time necessary. It has the additional advantage of ensuring the electric pump does not stop working.

_________________
Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

As I can't swim .... Thank goodness I don't have to worry about solar panels for a pool ( which I don't have and did not want ).
My solar panels provide enough hot water for my needs (for over 300 days a year) with no problems.
I do have a beautiful garden ( nearly 1000 sq.mtr. plot ) and only worry if the water supply can cover any drought periods.
No measuring or comparing of kilowatts / sunshine or shadow etc. ......
I do have a garden shower, though, in case I need to 'cool down' after reading some posts
Happy days.

SFD - different type of panels entirely. Hot water panels do not generate electricity, they heat the water only, much like the water in a hose pipe gets warm due to being in the sun all day...
Photovoltaic panels generate electricity - which may then be used to heat the water, by switching on the immersion heater.

_________________
Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

I am fully aware of that, PW.
I only needed approx. 12 hours of my immersion heater last winter.
I am just pleased that I do not have the need for photovoltaic panels or the reason to compare the problems of such with others who do.
But I wish you all the best for the use of yours .... at the least expense possible.

I have been in discussion with several Solar PV companies here in Cyprus & am now at the point where I have to make a choice.

However, I have a fundamental problem with all the quotations, none of them nominate components from a single-source manufacturer, albeit most are in Europe. As we are in Cyprus we all recognise the problem of 'repeatability' of products on the island, this is a major consideration I feel.

The first question I have is; how does the provision of system components from disparate suppliers affect the warrantees & guarantees offered?

The second question is; how does anyone gauge the effectiveness of this 'jigsaw puzzle' of components before committing to the expense, even if you gain assurance on the warranties & guarantees?

_________________
I'll be back!

You dive in the theory and then you collect the real data from your neighbours. For example I've attached to this post my production from 15 panels in Peyia this month. The chart is only for short time period, but I believe Polemi Dave has shared his results for entire year and you could ask another neighbours as well.

As for effectiveness in general, first I would be most concerned about if you gonna have any shading however little on any of your panels during the sun day. If so - there is almost certain possibility to have a pitiful result and a lot of frustration. In this case I would only consider to install micro inverters or any string system with power optimizers. It will cost you more, but it would give you a better ROI in result.

I haven't received my container from the UK yet, so I have no cappuccino machine at the time, but anyway you're welcome to my place to see my installation and to share some thoughts. PM me for the phone number and the google maps coordinates.

Regards, Andy.