Paphos People

Young Cypriots want modernisation, if you are mature say middle aged plus (incoming) then modernisation is a curse. I have noticed that modernisation is destroying the charm of Cyprus, buildings sprouting up everywhere most look like boxes. The quaintness has gone unless you travel out into the hills, I saw this in southern Spain, now parts of it do not get the same amount of tourists, Cyprus is in danger of killing the golden goose and the reason why people came here in the first place.

Sadly this is true as my wife and I went to 'A Place in the Sun' on Friday and we were told by a representative of Sold on Cyprus that they had obtained a contract regarding property/sales for Ayia Thekla and the immediate area.
They stated that a marina was being developed at this location along with "two huge tower blocks " and lots of new builds around this location and that one of the new properties that they had sold went for 2.2 million euros..!!.
I always thought that Thekla was a fantastic beach and relatively unspoiled but after hearing this I'm glad we didn't consider this area if this is what money can make happen.

Most of the high end property being built in Cyprus is for the foreign market- the Chinese can buy an EU passport relatively cheaply in Cyprus and that is the driving force behind the current high rise modern developments we are seeing- and to be be honest they care very little for the "charm" of the developments

Having said that Cyprus sold out a long time ago in the quaint stakes - at one stage pretty much every development in Paphos seemed more designed to line government officials and developers pockets than concern itself with long term enhancement of the environment and sustainable tourism, whilst many areas were allowed to fall into serious states of decline and disrepair (Paphos old town being the prime example)

Cyprus sadly got sucked into the EU accession property boom, the subsequent flooding of the banks with money and its residents and its economy will be paying for that folly for many more years to come.

It's still a great place to live of course, it's just a shame it's not as uniquely charming as it used to be

Personally, I wouldn't believe a word of what "Sold on Cyprus" say. I assume the representative was a male. They are only out to sell what they can to get their commission, and what they say about a property is not neccessarily true due to this.

We bought our property in 2005 on the developers promise of a lovely marina which is still a pipe dream.
Thousands of badly built properties still lying empty and unsold with no infrastructure to support it all.
Now they are going to do the same thing to the Akamas.
It will soon become another Benidorm with the AI booze brigade.

To add injury to the ongoing saga of houses, today had lunch with my landlord and his family, during our lunch we talked about the way Cyprus has changed, he said that plans have been passed to further develop St Georges with a 120, yes a 120 villas, my goodness that is a lot for that area, and as one member put it the Akamas is also being developed.

Frankly I fail to see the problem in developing the Akamas area, it's mainly scrubland & IMHO not in the least attractive. No comparison for example to the Lake District in the UK.
Save the best bits, but develop the rest I say.

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I'll be back!

We were lamenting the fact that there was a MacDonalds in Paphos, a few years ago, to our young Cypriot neighbour.
Her reply was "why should you have all the modern places in Britain, but we not be allowed them in Cyprus?"

Life moves on, sadly.

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J B

I dont blame the Cypriots, old village house's with out side loo,many without running water .. would you want to live in one..dont think so, Why do we expect locals to live like they did a hundred years ago, people sitting on Donkeys, old ladies repairing roads, back busting harvesting by hand, thats the quaint Cyprus we all remember? while at the same time we want all mod cons, air con, underfloor heating, wi fi etc etc...Cyprus has changed as has every country on the planet, I was watching a realty show some time back set in an African village, they were living in mud huts, while at the same time all playing with their mobile phones...like trying to hold the tide back..it wont happen

Nothing wrong with "progress", but when the progress in Cyprus saw the country virtually bankrupted, Cypriots having the highest personal debt ratios of pretty much everyone, the banks having the highest NPL loans to be seen anywhere, empty developments and houses everywhere that are never going to be properly utilised, shoddy construction etc you surely have to realise that Cyprus didn't encompass the concept of "progress" very well? I suspect the insulation levels in the old stone houses are probably a lot higher than many of the "new" concrete boxes


As for the Akamas?- whether you think it's pretty or not is irrelevant- it's pretty much all that is left that is in any way pristine and as such needs to be protected. All the advanced Western countries have realised that, and the efforts made to preserve wildlife and stop development that destroys it are necessary, even if many individuals (often those with a vested financial interest) cannot see it

The problem is that the "modern builders" have capatilised on the so called "mod cons" you mention. However, the new buildings rarely have central heating, or insulated walls, or underfloor heating. They are concrete blocks that have none of these. Therefore, the old stone houses had better insulation, as the walls were of much thicker dimensions, and were of stone, not thin concrete blocks.

Most of the apartments i viewed recently with a friend from the UK who was looking to purchase , all had air con, nearly all had central heating, one or two had underfloor heating... I think your find that alot of locals build their own houses, and nearly all have air con and heating.

Insulation has nothing to do with air con or heating- the basic concrete houses thrown up in the property boom are poorly built- full stop. Many did not have damp courses as standard, are unbearably hot in the summer and incredibly cold in the winter (making air con and heating for most a very expensive essential )

Water and plumbing piping embedded in concrete is not a great idea either

I think your find that most builds now have whats called pipe in pipe, so if there is a problem, you can disconnect the pipe,from a manifold. pull it out put the new one in, without any damage, this was pointed out to us while we were viewing.

Most builds "now" have indeed moved on, but there is not a lot of building going on, other than the aesthetically unsympathetic eyesores they are throwing up to flog to the Chinese for passports

The vast majority of the existing housing stock that replaced the old stone builds is NOT built to modern standards and cannot be easily or cheaply adapted to those standards- that's as plain as the nose on your face

A couple of friends of mine recently had a villa built to "modern" standards with properly sealed double glazing, damp proof courses top and bottom, proper insulation, piping etc and it makes most of the other "luxury" villas in the area look like 1950's prefabs, although most of them are no more than 10 years old and cost about an average of 600,000 Euros .

It wasn't all that more expensive to have it done properly by an independent builder following their instructions (in fact they reckon it was a damn sight cheaper than and better than any developer would even dream of putting out for he same price). Having seen it first hand I have to agree with them - the finish knocked 10 bells out of the "usual suspects" standards

I know some people who spent 1.5 million on a developers house and this custom built house has a better view, a bigger and better plot, a better finish, is electricity cost free with the photovoltaic system etc it cost less than half that and it had it's deeds on completion

The OP was about Cyprus losing its charm...its very simple to understand, people in 2017 want all the mod cons...they dont want to live in houses built a hundred years ago with mud bricks and twig roofs...talking about the plumbing and isolation is going of topic

It depends where they build these houses that determines whether Cyprus is losing it's charm or not- take it from me, it's losing it and it's being sold off to people who give not a jot about Cyprus and it's culture and landscape- they're only interested in a cheap EU passport and there are plenty willing to sell them for a few bucks in their own pocket that does not benefit Cyprus as a whole one iota (other than help service the debt from the last bout of madness )

As for the stone houses-most of them had all the necessary facilities (including electricity, water and indoor toilets long before the UK reached that elevated status) and the Cypriot government gives grants to renovate them. You don't have to live in one if you don't want to, but you are not allowed to knock them down either, and rightly so (unless you give a big enough bung of course ) Most of them will still be standing long after the re-bar has rusted on many of the newer properties

Many things in Cyprus have changed over the years and will continue to change in the coming years.
Having left Cyprus in 1967 when Paphos was just a fishing village and not returning until 1998 (31 years) we experienced massive changes, we couldn't even find our old house in Limassol until someone directed us to it.
Even on our 6 monthly visits we notice changes, if we were in a financial position to buy a property it would certainly be an out of town location where some of the charm still remains.

When I was posted to Cyprus in 1966 we left terraced housing in the UK, much of it back to back with outside toilets (many shared), the only hot water was by a gas ring.
We arrived in a country just 6 years into independence and rented lovely properties in Limassol with bathrooms, indoor toilets, proper kitchens, hot and cold running water etc. On our return to the UK my posting was unaccompanied so Val (6 months pregnant) had to go back to her parents 300 year old cottage where she gave birth to ur first born, the only modern convenience was an Ascot Geyser along with a tin bath.

I love living here and I love my house here, but another Euro 2000 on the actual construction cost at the outset by whoever built it would probably have saved me at least Euro 1000 a year on paint/plastering maintenance and heating/cooling bills

We moved into a relatively new build rental which we discussed with owner back in Ireland the matter of buying the property, this was until the flaws started to show through like the recently emulsioned areas where the waste pipes leaked through the walls which eventually cost the owner several thousand euros to be put right extending right out to the septic tank, the ill fitting doors and windows.
Lovely looking bungalow, lovely village but poorly built to a low standard.
We were accused by the rental agent of trashing the place but we had got a neighbour to check out the place on our handing in the keys, these people knew the owner and when she visited Cyprus they assured her that we were decent people and left the place clean and tidy as we found it.

Thanks for all your input regarding the charm of Cyprus, many people will have different opinions, a very good point was raised by a member and I agree, why should we have everything and the locals have nothing.
May I expand on what a few locals have said to me over the months, we want modern up to date living, we are rich with owning our land, however once we sell that land to developers we have money, when we have spent that money we are poor because we can only sell it once. Bless them dammed either way.

would love to, and more of us should try it.

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Straight talking, no Gimmicks.

Live your dreams.

A friend of mine lived in a traditional stone property- it wasn't a house (a lot of them are indeed a bit on the small side) but it was the old village coffee shop converted into a house and he loved it. Charm by the bucket load, brilliant little garden, cool in the summer warm in the winter it suited him to a T

Not my style granted- I prefer lots of windows and smooth white walls and a terracotta tiled slopping roof which done properly can also be very aesthetically pleasing both inside and out. Decent tiling is the key to making the interior of these type of properties attractive and there are some wonderful tile styles available these days- the bog standard rubbish used during the building boom just looks cheap and nasty now

Both those styles suit Cyprus very well- a lot more than some of the square box, flat roof, modern monstrosities that are spring up everywhere and look more like the things we used to see in 1960's science fiction movies than someone's home in the Med

As for the new generation of multi storey properties that are all the rage down Limassol way these days?- I wouldn't live in one of those if you gave it to me for nothing and paid all my bills to boot

Especially when there is a leak, we rented a fairly new build upside down house, no cavity wall, the waste from the upstairs kitchen and toilet leaked through into the under stairs cupboard down below, we deposited a load of mothballs to cover the smell and were accused of dropping them down a cavity that didn't exist.
Isn't there something in place stating that all new builds have to have cavity wall insulation?

Wrong topic

Wasn't it a Cypriot builder who built the 'Leaning Tower of Pisa'?

There's very little wrong with the basic Cyprus technique- the concrete raft, concrete frame method of construction will produce a building that will take some shaking down even in a known earthquake zone. It's just some of the refinements (which in the general scheme of things cost buttons) that are lacking- which probably explains the inordinately high number of DIY stores

Apart from the points made earlier by those experiencing them!

As a strong anti-seismic event structure it's not bad, but most people can design a box.

The many 'failings' in respect to the design are as regards ease of maintenance & its frequency.
These I would suggest are purposely 'designed in', leading to constant efforts & expense by the unfortunate homeowner, which however, serves to support the local tradesmen.Hence the emergence of the many DIY stores.

Since Cyprus 'pretends' to be part of the EU, why are the Building Regulations of the EU not adhered to?

Where are the independent Inspectors to check on the various stages of the build process?

Why do building sites continue to operate without a Clerk of Works or a trained/qualified Health & Safety representative envigilating on the process & working practices?

Why do the 'Planning Office' not attend & inspect the project at intervals throughout the build?

Why are the architects not brought to account over flawed/outmoded building designs?

It is entirely the reason these properties are to a 'less than acceptable standard' in the 21st. century.IMHO owners should be able to claim compensation against the Architect/Developer/Builder.

So Ilex, I don't agree that "there is very little wrong with the basic Cyprus technique"

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I'll be back!

Nobody more scathing of the building and planning process than me, but the suggestion that what they do put up isn't even vertical is a bit much -even though there are numerous horizontal issues

Any client having a property built can employ their own professional to oversee the works even if through a developer. Most chose not to do so on grounds of cost.
As far as inspections, site visits, H&S etc etc are concerned, you may believe them to be lacking however there is also the knowledge that each of these areas involve serious cost implications, some of these can be passed on to the owner in the way of fees, but other costs will be picked up by the central and municipal governments which means an overall increase for all taxpayers.

Yes some of the building here can best be described as angel delight, some just ordinary and some standard but there is also an onus on buyers to ensure the build is what they want and to their specifications, with clauses in purchase agreements to accommodate these.

But in general Cyprus retains much of its old agricultural and rural history, more so than some places.

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Straight talking, no Gimmicks.

Live your dreams.

Isn't there a clerk o works etc to ensure regulations are met with.
If my phone was not fitted properly the onus wouldn't have been on me to see that it was the same as If a car wasn't repaired properly the fault would be with the mechanic not the car owner.
In the UK the architect sets out the standards and requirements which the builder must follow.

You can choose to live in a nanny state and have the government watch and wipe your backside for you, or you can live in Cyprus where you are expected to stand on your own 2 feet and makes decisions based on your own understanding of situations, human nature and knowledge of the potential pitfalls of handing over money without the "anticipated" state and legal back up - I know which I prefer and oddly enough I still think is part of the charm

Had I been screwed over then of course I might see it differently - as it is I'm happy with what I have and the price I paid and believe the advantages far outweigh the drawbacks.

As for the UK Clerk of Works- they don't really leave their offices any more (they expect contractors to email them pictures to verify work standards) and much of the UK's new housing stock is currently being built on known flood plains without the necessary run off/drainage infra structure being put in place There are surely more flooding issues in the UK than there are earthquake issues in Cyprus ?

A house without deeds doesn't seem all that different to me from a house built on a flood plain that you might not get insurance for and will be nigh impossible to resell ?

Its total rubbish to suggest no one checks stages of work....when building my house, my architect was there at every stage, he even had someone drill and remove pieces of concrete to ensure it was the right quality, some people on here seem to just like to comment with out having a clue.

Correct- I believe the concrete skeleton and float is thoroughly inspected and can only be done by approved specialists- what happens beyond that might have been a different matter.

If, as pointed out, you have personally employed an architect you would expect him to see the rest of plan is adhered to (especially if it is your plan), if you haven't employed an architect you might not have the same scrutiny- but your "basic" house structure should be earthquake proof and unlikely to fall down unless there is a land issue of course (like some parts of Pissouri) and you'd need a seismic survey to find out those problems prior to building

The firm of architects I used are also civil engineers , it was in the contract that they inspected at every stage.

Good- as I pointed out and others have pointed out if you are willing to pay the full costs of having a house built rather than simply hand over a wedge of money to a developer you can indeed buy/build a very good house in Cyprus.The locals knew that much of the land in Pissouri was not suitable for building (since the 1950's apparently), but that didn't stop many of the developers going ahead anyway

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/05/24/land- ... uri-homes/

Correct 100% agree with you, unfortunately its a Cypriot trait...everyone who had a bit of land became a developer in the boom years, the same as everyone became a shares expert with the stock exchange fiasco back in the day.

As I said it is not the buyer but for others to ensure that work is carried out to spec.

John this thread is really about the charm and attraction of Cyprus, a lot of which still exists. However any buyer should appoint a responsible person to oversee any work. It doesn't matter which country you are in, if there is no oversight shortcuts can happen. One of the great problems with many people is throwing the blame game and pleading ignorance of straightforward common senses.

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Straight talking, no Gimmicks.

Live your dreams.

Good Post

My last reply on this topic.
It is not the buyers responsibility to oversee the work stages on a new build property, it is no excuse that if the buyer didn't notice shoddy incorrect building it is his or her own fault, the builder is paid to do the job properly according to plan and specification.

Bassman. of course its the buyers job to do this as he is ultimately going to sign to take possession of the property. He may choose to appoint any number of architects, contractors and other professionals to assist him but it is his own responsibility. Also in the process of drawing contracts it is also his own responsibility to ensure he has suitable protection for any recourse he feels necessary.

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Straight talking, no Gimmicks.

Live your dreams.

The legal system and the conveyance system in Cyprus are nothing like the UK, the level of state interference in the planning and building process is minimal and the courts work at a snails pace when it comes to resolving any disputes. The progeny of the UK nanny state might not be able to get their heads round that, but that is the way it is in Cyprus and most Cypriots managed to navigate the process quite well

If we were going to have the state play nanny to the process that would cost Cypriot tax payers money, if you think you can rely on builders to voluntarily adhere to optimum building standards all the time then that is a bit naive, so employing someone independent to oversee the process makes a lot of sense and is probably the most practical solution?

Don't get me wrong, the Cypriot system is far from perfect, it could not cope with the sheer volume of sales and construction during the boom years and was indeed open to all sorts of abuse, but some people didn't half leave their brain on the plane when they purchased in Cyprus or moved here . I know some people who are genuine victims of a bad system and rogue developers, but I also know lots who were just victims of their own lack of common sense

So in your view Tanny, not only is the buyer expected to be at least conversant with the building process, materials specification & necessary stage inspections as the architect/developer or builder, he is also to be an expert in contracts law.

Sorry if I don't agree with your arguments Tanny/Ilex. If such people (I'm sure there may be a few) wanted a house in Cyprus, inevitably I'm guessing they would opt to either build it themselves, or engage a contractor to do the work under their direct supervision.

However, for the rest of us, it is the duty of care & integrity of the professionals we need to ensure that these aspects are completed in accordance with Cyprus laws, building specifications/materials & processes compliant with the required practices.
We should not need to effectively duplicate the architect/developer/or builder roles to secure our purchase is delivered accordingly.
In my view only a solicitor acting in our interest, but thereby hangs another tale!

In short most lacking the above mentioned skillsets &/or experience, are open to being mislead & ripped-off, as has proven to be the case in many,many instances.
So IMHO it is not a case of being a 'soft product' from a 'nanny state', but being a victim of a corrupt one.

Caveat emptor!

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I'll be back!

Exactly my point topgun. If someone does not know their baton from asphalt then they should employ the relevant professional to act for them. Irrespective of who is building the property it is common sense that the buyer when parting with a load of money gets it right.

The expectation to be continually spoon fed by a nanny system does not appeal to me in the slightest.

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Straight talking, no Gimmicks.

Live your dreams.

Back in the UK no one would think of handing over money before a building survey was done on the property...so as someone already has stated if you leave your brains on the plane ..no one is to blame but yourself,...some would readily hand over a couple of hundred grand, but bemoan spending a couple of grand to a surveyor/civil engineer to check out the state of the property, then they moan that Cyprus/Cypriots are all corrupt

So if you're in the UK whilst your house is being built do you write to the builder asking him if he's observing all the requirements? Do you honestly think he'll say no?, The relatively new house that we rented had to have the internal and external drainage replaced when the drains started to seep through the interior walls, was that the owners fault?

How do I know how your owner built his house, for all I know he might of build it himself? with out any knowledge on building.... If your stuck in the UK and your building in Cyprus then You employ a reputable civil engineer/architect firm to look after your interests...everyone who buys property here or any where else,should take some responsibility and stop blaming every one else.. I took responsibility when I build my House , I employed experts to over see things, had I not done that and was given a pile of ..... then its my fault no one else's.

It goes without saying that during the boom there could never have been enough good builders to build everything that was being built. I suspect there must have been a 400% increase in the number of building permits being issued as well as those DIY farmers who decided to cash in and build houses on their own on their land without any of the necessary permissions.

The tours I had with the developers at the time did not impress me as they realised it was a sellers market- it was a case if didn't want it someone else would which is never conducive to the buyer getting a good deal (that's simple business)

That was the background to me coming across to buy something here so I worked out a solution to better suit myself, and whilst it did not go without the odd hitch I have my deeds and a house I am 95% happy with , that has since been decorated and fitted out to my own taste far better than any of the major developers could ever have managed at a fraction of what they wold have charged and that has no structural problems that I am aware of (and it's been up since 1997)