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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Hudswell wrote:
Neil, I always research numerous news feeds and am always open minded in regard to the ""truth" and from experience know that fact can be interpreted in a number of ways...but I am also confident that a number of international intelligence gathering agencies will have been involved in deducting that Assad indeed authorised this strike...the US will present the evidence to Russia, if they listen that is a different matter..


just like they told bush and blair they had gathered evidence of Gadaffi`s W.O.M.D . :-(

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:51 pm 
Neil wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
Neil, I always research numerous news feeds and am always open minded in regard to the ""truth" and from experience know that fact can be interpreted in a number of ways...but I am also confident that a number of international intelligence gathering agencies will have been involved in deducting that Assad indeed authorised this strike...the US will present the evidence to Russia, if they listen that is a different matter..


just like they told bush and blair they had gathered evidence of Gadaffi`s W.O.M.D . :-(

well said


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:30 pm 
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Neil wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
Neil, I always research numerous news feeds and am always open minded in regard to the ""truth" and from experience know that fact can be interpreted in a number of ways...but I am also confident that a number of international intelligence gathering agencies will have been involved in deducting that Assad indeed authorised this strike...the US will present the evidence to Russia, if they listen that is a different matter..


just like they told bush and blair they had gathered evidence of Gadaffi`s W.O.M.D . :-(


You have to understand that Hudswell sincerely believes that The West's disastrous interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya that have resulted in hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and millions displaced justify yet more Western intervention in Syria...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:43 pm 
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Oh dear....what I truely believe is that there are those have given their lives and continue to Give their lives in order to allow ungrateful nasty man to spout their crap whilst innocents die and Defend a regime who would quite happily see our way of life destroyed..and are willing to see thier future, their children exterminated by their own hands...yes shame on you. Oops I see the censor has already "changed" my post..delete nasty men insert bar stewards..


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:59 pm 
Hudswell wrote:
Oh dear....what I truely believe is that there are those have given their lives and continue to Give their lives in order to allow ungrateful nasty man to spout their crap whilst innocents die and Defend a regime who would quite happily see our way of life destroyed..and are willing to see thier future, their children exterminated by their own hands...yes shame on you. Oops I see the censor has already "changed" my post..delete nasty men insert bar stewards..


Take cover, toys flying out of the pram :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:47 am 
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Hudswell wrote:
Oh dear....what I truely believe is that there are those have given their lives and continue to Give their lives in order to allow ungrateful nasty man to spout their crap whilst innocents die and Defend a regime who would quite happily see our way of life destroyed..and are willing to see thier future, their children exterminated by their own hands...yes shame on you..
The problem is that you believe, apparently without question, all the propaganda that you are fed. At the end of the day, this conflict in Syria was not about noble causes or the defence of freedoms, it was about the construction of a gas pipe line to take gas from America's allies in the Gulf states to Europe, so they wouldn't have to buy gas from Russia and thus damage the economy of the old enemy. You will notice that despite the anti-Russian rhetoric and the sanctions imposed by Europe on behalf of the USA, Europe is still buying its gas from Russia and is still selling cars to Russia. Follow the money!

Gesture politics, which is what Trump's ridiculous attack on Assad's airfield was, had nothing to do with protecting innocents. It was theatre for public consumption. No-one in this game cares a jot about the innocents who die along the way. This is not about good men in white hats defending the public from those nasty men (no substitute intended) from the East. It's about gas, keeping down Russian opposition and ensuring that Saudi Arabia doesn't demand back the trillions of American debt it holds.

Saudi Arabia is a worse country for human rights violation than Syria ever was. There are no Christian churches there, and head chopping, the suppression of women and the killing of gays (all those things liberals profess to care about) are a way of life, yet no-one is talking about deposing the Saudi leadership. They are feted by our leaders - even the Royal family - and we are arming the Saudis to fight their neighbours to feed our armaments industry. The Arab press reports that it was Saudi that paid the millions for the missiles for Trump's gesture.

This always was, and remains, about a gas pipe that Assad opposed, and will continue until he is gone. How many people are killed, maimed or displaced is irrelevant to that.

Frankly I wouldn't have put it past the CIA to have arranged the gas explosion to hurry things along, given that Assad with his Russian help was actually winning the war and that would never fit with their wider plans for the region.

It's all very well thinking that people's motives are good - and in the case of the military forces who put their lives in harms way, that is almost certainly true - but those who send them out to fight and die have no such bonhomie.

What gets to me is the dishonesty and the hypocrisy. Trump has been played, or he is part of the problem. I hoped the former, but fear the latter as that doesn't bode well for the future. Wars are fantastic opportunities to make money, and we are in the firing line.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:27 am 
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KG wrote:
The problem is that you believe, apparently without question, all the propaganda that you are fed.


It appears you do as well.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/3768 ... peline-war

Jim


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:06 am 
KG wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
Oh dear....what I truely believe is that there are those have given their lives and continue to Give their lives in order to allow ungrateful nasty man to spout their crap whilst innocents die and Defend a regime who would quite happily see our way of life destroyed..and are willing to see thier future, their children exterminated by their own hands...yes shame on you..
The problem is that you believe, apparently without question, all the propaganda that you are fed. At the end of the day, this conflict in Syria was not about noble causes or the defence of freedoms, it was about the construction of a gas pipe line to take gas from America's allies in the Gulf states to Europe, so they wouldn't have to buy gas from Russia and thus damage the economy of the old enemy. You will notice that despite the anti-Russian rhetoric and the sanctions imposed by Europe on behalf of the USA, Europe is still buying its gas from Russia and is still selling cars to Russia. Follow the money!

Gesture politics, which is what Trump's ridiculous attack on Assad's airfield was, had nothing to do with protecting innocents. It was theatre for public consumption. No-one in this game cares a jot about the innocents who die along the way. This is not about good men in white hats defending the public from those nasty men (no substitute intended) from the East. It's about gas, keeping down Russian opposition and ensuring that Saudi Arabia doesn't demand back the trillions of American debt it holds.

Saudi Arabia is a worse country for human rights violation than Syria ever was. There are no Christian churches there, and head chopping, the suppression of women and the killing of gays (all those things liberals profess to care about) are a way of life, yet no-one is talking about deposing the Saudi leadership. They are feted by our leaders - even the Royal family - and we are arming the Saudis to fight their neighbours to feed our armaments industry. The Arab press reports that it was Saudi that paid the millions for the missiles for Trump's gesture.

This always was, and remains, about a gas pipe that Assad opposed, and will continue until he is gone. How many people are killed, maimed or displaced is irrelevant to that.

Frankly I wouldn't have put it past the CIA to have arranged the gas explosion to hurry things along, given that Assad with his Russian help was actually winning the war and that would never fit with their wider plans for the region.

It's all very well thinking that people's motives are good - and in the case of the military forces who put their lives in harms way, that is almost certainly true - but those who send them out to fight and die have no such bonhomie.

What gets to me is the dishonesty and the hypocrisy. Trump has been played, or he is part of the problem. I hoped the former, but fear the latter as that doesn't bode well for the future. Wars are fantastic opportunities to make money, and we are in the firing line.

In a nutshell. very good post :clap


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:03 am 
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Very well put KG ,
you can get it across alot better than I could , I have no problem about our militery
I hold my hands up to those who decide to serve ,
but they have trouble swallowing that they are only cannon fodder for a much bigger picture..
If people could only understand , terrorists are only killing us , because we are trying to take over there countries.
leave them alone and they will leave us..

Assad has said no to the middle east pipeline and turkey is hosting the russian pipeline
there lies the big problem ..

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:09 am 
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Neil wrote:
Very well put KG ,
you can get it across alot better than I could , I have no problem about our militery
I hold my hands up to those who decide to serve ,
but they have trouble swallowing that they are only cannon fodder for a much bigger picture..
If people could only understand , terrorists are only killing us , because we are trying to take over there countries.
leave them alone and they will leave us..

Assad has said no to the middle east pipeline and turkey is hosting the russian pipeline
there lies the big problem ..


Actually Neil I never did think of myself as cannon fodder...and if you really believe that terrorists are killing us because of our actions in the Middle East, then as you say, you should consider the bigger picture. KG a good post, again, and I agree with a lot ofmyourmcomment, but misguided, again...and the,"propaganda" I choose to read, and an awful lot of world leaders, with the notable exceptions of Russia and Iran, funny that, has lent its support to the attack on the Syrian Airbase. Assad chose to deploy chemical weapons against his own people, I have no idea why, because as you say he has the upper hand, I do not think the man is mad, but he is cold, calculating and quite frankly evil...Russia, Putin, had the oppourtunity to step up to the mark and regain some respect, again he failed and the dangerous rhetoric coming out of his office does nothing to calm an extremely volitile situation.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:55 am 
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Hudswell wrote:
Neil wrote:
Very well put KG ,
you can get it across alot better than I could , I have no problem about our militery
I hold my hands up to those who decide to serve ,
but they have trouble swallowing that they are only cannon fodder for a much bigger picture..
If people could only understand , terrorists are only killing us , because we are trying to take over there countries.
leave them alone and they will leave us..

Assad has said no to the middle east pipeline and turkey is hosting the russian pipeline
there lies the big problem ..


Actually Neil I never did think of myself as cannon fodder...and if you really believe that terrorists are killing us because of our actions in the Middle East, then as you say, you should consider the bigger picture. KG a good post, again, and I agree with a lot ofmyourmcomment, but misguided, again...and the,"propaganda" I choose to read, and an awful lot of world leaders, with the notable exceptions of Russia and Iran, funny that, has lent its support to the attack on the Syrian Airbase. Assad chose to deploy chemical weapons against his own people, I have no idea why, because as you say he has the upper hand, I do not think the man is mad, but he is cold, calculating and quite frankly evil...Russia, Putin, had the oppourtunity to step up to the mark and regain some respect, again he failed and the dangerous rhetoric coming out of his office does nothing to calm an extremely volitile situation.



There has not been one shred of evidence as to who committed the gas attack in Syria. Just like there has never been one shred of evidence that the plane shot down some time ago was shot down by a Russian missile in Ukraine. Trump is a raging, non politician, lunatic, who is putting this whole world in danger. Now he is sending what looks to be an invasion armada of ships to North Korea. All this activity by the USA is nowhere near their own shores, so they are happy to create trouble in Asia, that will undoubtedly spill over into Europe, and if nuclear weapons are used, then we can all say goodbye to tomorrow. It amazes me that you are all too willing, yet again to blemish the posting of any member who has a different viewpoint to you, and some of your comments are so much like the verbal whatsit of Trump, that I wonder if you are related! Trump is possibly the most ignorant and dangerous "leader" there has been for world safety since the rantings of a certain individual prior to WW2. I feel President Putin has shown considerable restraint so far, but even his patience may wear thin soon. And that may also be the case of the Chinese leader too. If Trump wants war, then let him fight it on his own this time.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:31 pm 
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You keep saying that I am 'misguided'. I am quite happy to concede that I don't know everything about the shenanigens in the Middle East, but the line we are being fed from Washingtom is hogwash. I am not 'misguided'. Neither am I gullible, nor do I favour either side in this depressing saga. I am just sick of the lies used to justify pointless wars.

Jim B accuses me of believing the propaganda, then quotes a piece from a respected commentator who doesn't buy the gas pipeline story. Fair enough, but the same commentator wrote elsewhere that the rebels were responsible for the earlier gas attack, and not Assad, as was claimed at the time. As the rebels have most to gain from the use of chemicals, then it is not unreasonable to suspect that they may have done so again - even if the main protagonists had decided it was Assad before any investigation took place. Today we are being told that the Russians bombed a hospital to cover up the fact that a chemical weapon was used. It's just more spin. If I was Russian, I would be getting very annoyed by now.

The American and British governments are still pushing the party line that the gas was Sarin - which clearly it wasn't - as if that added to the horror of it all. They still want to remove Assad from power, which would unleash even more bloodshed, as there is no one there to take over - and so we replace a secular dictator (albeit an elected one) with choas and gang warfare, as assorted Islamist factions, who hate one another more than they hate Assad, jockey for power. How does that benefit anyone? Even the former UK ambassador to Damascus believes there will be a bloodbath if Assad is removed.

Have those driving this forgotten already what a mess they made of Iraq and Libya, by removing the glue that held those countries together without thought for what comes next? Tens, if not hundreds of thousands have died as a result of the meddling, and as I said before they are just as dead as those that Assad is alleged to have gassed.

There are so many facets to the middle east adventure that it makes your head spin, but one thing is certain. It is not a simple question of bad man Assad versus the good men of Washington and those who hang on their coat tails.

As a final comment, I read in this morning's news of British special forces activities in Syria. I guess today's special forces don't wear boots because parliament wisely refused to allow British boots on the ground in Syria - but there they are.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:00 pm 
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KG

What I was pointing out is that you are accusing Hudswell about quoting untruths but at the same time you are acting in exactly the same way. I certainly don't know the truth just the same as you and all those so quick to defend Russia and accuse the States of over reaction. Whether you like it or not Assad's Military has a track record of dropping chemical weapons and Russia isn't backwards in coming forwards when it comes to bombing civilians, be it their own or some one else's. I just find your "balanced view" is always very one sided.

Jim


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:17 pm 
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President Putin has just given a press conference stating that more chemical
attacks are being planned for Syria , including in damascus itself , he says he has info
that the chemical weapons attacks were in fact false flags by the West ... Hmmm ? ..
and are an excuse for the west to try and attack Assad , to which he said he would not stand by and let this happen ,,,,,,,,,, Yes , Russia has a sea port in syria .. :greetings

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Ask yourself this ,,, ?

Syria & Russia have almost won the war in Syria, just a bit of mopping up to do ,
Why would they even think about using chemical weapons , for which they never had any , anyway ?
it just does not add up ..
Take off them blinkers !

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Why would Putin be in the know prior to an attack being made on Syria?

I was under the impression that Russia were no longer using their sea port in Syria and haven't been doing for quite some time - hence the reason they keep making an appearance at Limassol port following their agreement with Cyprus as they can no longer refuel in Syria.....

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Well Neil, my flabber is truely gasted....Assad, Syria has a long and rich history of an enduring Chemical weapons programme.....just try using our friend "Google" of course the thousands of hits that come up,are"probably" fake news.....Putin had a real chance here to prove he is not the bogey man most people think he is...he has blown it....


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:39 pm 
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it looks like the G7 are not alllowing the wool
to be pulled over there eyes either ,,
But I suppose they are all wrong as well ..
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39565700

:doh

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Neil wrote:
Ask yourself this ,,, ?

Syria & Russia have almost won the war in Syria, just a bit of mopping up to do ,
Why would they even think about using chemical weapons , for which they never had any , anyway ?
it just does not add up ..
Take off them blinkers !


Syria and Russia are far from having won the Civil War, in fact they've been fought to a standstill in many places and the first map shows it only controls a small strip of the country and if Hezbollah hadn't have been involved they would only have a couple of enclaves. Link two might make others take their blinkers off but I very much doubt it.

Jim

http://www.newsweek.com/dutch-high-scho ... raq-342604

http://www.stopfake.org/en/5-myths-russ ... -in-syria/


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Jim B wrote:
Neil wrote:
Ask yourself this ,,, ?

Syria & Russia have almost won the war in Syria, just a bit of mopping up to do ,
Why would they even think about using chemical weapons , for which they never had any , anyway ?
it just does not add up ..
Take off them blinkers !


Syria and Russia are far from having won the Civil War, in fact they've been fought to a standstill in many places and the first map shows it only controls a small strip of the country and if Hezbollah hadn't have been involved they would only have a couple of enclaves. Link two might make others take their blinkers off but I very much doubt it.

Jim

http://www.newsweek.com/dutch-high-scho ... raq-342604

http://www.stopfake.org/en/5-myths-russ ... -in-syria/


Both from 2015...?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Neil wrote:
it looks like the G7 are not alllowing the wool
to be pulled over there eyes either ,,
But I suppose they are all wrong as well ..
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39565700

:doh


Actually I am not in favour of further sanctions against Russia....but the G7 did state that Assad should not remain as leader of Syria...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Hudswell wrote:
Neil wrote:
it looks like the G7 are not alllowing the wool
to be pulled over there eyes either ,,
But I suppose they are all wrong as well ..
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39565700

:doh


Actually I am not in favour of further sanctions against Russia....but the G7 did state that Assad should not remain as leader of Syria...

Russia will not let him be removed , they have to much invested in syria , plus
remember the saudi gas pipeline that they dont want

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:55 pm 
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CyprusGrump wrote:
Jim B wrote:
Neil wrote:
Ask yourself this ,,, ?

Syria & Russia have almost won the war in Syria, just a bit of mopping up to do ,
Why would they even think about using chemical weapons , for which they never had any , anyway ?
it just does not add up ..
Take off them blinkers !


Syria and Russia are far from having won the Civil War, in fact they've been fought to a standstill in many places and the first map shows it only controls a small strip of the country and if Hezbollah hadn't have been involved they would only have a couple of enclaves. Link two might make others take their blinkers off but I very much doubt it.

Jim

http://www.newsweek.com/dutch-high-scho ... raq-342604

http://www.stopfake.org/en/5-myths-russ ... -in-syria/


Both from 2015...?


OK is to the hour close enough. The Pipeline is Fake News and is supposedly from Qatar.

http://syria.liveuamap.com/en/time/15.03

Jim


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Jim B wrote:
The Pipeline is Fake News and is supposedly from Qatar.

Jim


"The Qatar-Turkey pipeline was a proposal to build a natural gas pipeline from the Iranian–Qatari South Pars / North Dome Gas-Condensate field towards Turkey, where it could connect with the Nabucco pipeline to supply European customers as well as Turkey. One route to Turkey was via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria and another was through Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq. Syria's rationale for rejecting the Qatar proposal was said to be "to protect the interests of [its] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar–Turkey_pipeline


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Neil wrote:
If people could only understand , terrorists are only killing us , because we are trying to take over there countries. leave them alone and they will leave us..


Probably the sort of thing that Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Netherlands and many other countries said prior to being invaded by Herr Hitler. "Peace in our time".

Do I believe that Assad is responsible for this outrage against humanity? Yes. Absolutely.

Do I have proof that he is responsible? No.

Did I believe that Martin McGuinness commanded PIRA and murdered innocent people? Yes. Absolutely.

Did I ever have proof that Martin McGuinness commanded PIRA and murdered innocent people? No.

Same difference...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:51 am 
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David G wrote:
Jim B wrote:
The Pipeline is Fake News and is supposedly from Qatar.

Jim


"The Qatar-Turkey pipeline was a proposal to build a natural gas pipeline from the Iranian–Qatari South Pars / North Dome Gas-Condensate field towards Turkey, where it could connect with the Nabucco pipeline to supply European customers as well as Turkey. One route to Turkey was via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria and another was through Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq. Syria's rationale for rejecting the Qatar proposal was said to be "to protect the interests of [its] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar–Turkey_pipeline


David

Please read the above link from (as KG concedes), a Respected Commentator regarding the quoted pipeline; the proposed route was never put forward for Assad to reject. Many pipeline routes and projects in general have feasibility studies but that's as far as they get.

Jim


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:11 am 
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While the Americans quite rightly condemn the use of chemical weapons in Syria, who was it who used Agent orange in Vietnam.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:20 am 
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zorbathejock wrote:
While the Americans quite rightly condemn the use of chemical weapons in Syria, who was it who used Agent orange in Vietnam.

The errors made by previous generations should not be perpetrated by others now !


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:37 am 
zorbathejock wrote:
While the Americans quite rightly condemn the use of chemical weapons in Syria, who was it who used Agent orange in Vietnam.

Mate that dosnt count because they were used by the cowboys in White hats....the Ruskies wear the Black hats... :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:39 am 
SFD wrote:
zorbathejock wrote:
While the Americans quite rightly condemn the use of chemical weapons in Syria, who was it who used Agent orange in Vietnam.

The errors made by previous generations should not be perpetrated by others now !

Change that to Evil errors


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:01 am 
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SFD wrote:
zorbathejock wrote:
While the Americans quite rightly condemn the use of chemical weapons in Syria, who was it who used Agent orange in Vietnam.

The errors made by previous generations should not be perpetrated by others now !

not errors , just nut cases ,, who wiped out japanese cities , just because they were losing ..
the only country in the world to use nukes on innocent civilans . :doh
never trust the yanks , yet we run around licking there butts like idiots ..

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:22 am 
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I have to say Neil that some of your comments surprise me, to say the least...you are just too blinkered to have a rational conversation with if Putin Russia or America is involved. And you bring up Hirosima? Why? I suppose we can forget the atrocities committed by the Japenese during the Second World War, against the Allies and Chinese..ever hear of the massacre of Nanking? Read your history before you make silly comments. And whilst I am not defending the use of Agent Orange during the Vietnam war, it was deployed as a WMD but as a deforestation agent.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:48 am 
Hudswell wrote:
I have to say Neil that some of your comments surprise me, to say the least...you are just too blinkered to have a rational conversation with if Putin Russia or America is involved. And you bring up Hirosima? Why? I suppose we can forget the atrocities committed by the Japenese during the Second World War, against the Allies and Chinese..ever hear of the massacre of Nanking? Read your history before you make silly comments. And whilst I am not defending the use of Agent Orange during the Vietnam war, it was deployed as a WMD but as a deforestation agent.


Your even trying to spin this Evil act.... Words fail me :roll:

If anyone wants to see how Evil this agent orange was, google it, and see how generation after generation suffered...So please no lectures from the USA on war crimes.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:17 am 
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It all boils down to whether you think it appropriate to risk a hot war between countries armed with nuclear weapons, in which many more thousands of people are likely to die, to make a political gesture for an act which is believed to be attributable to Assad (though only now are they talking about having the investigation, that should have been carried out first, that might or might not prove that). Is this any less reprehensible than killing a relative handful of people with chemicals?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:19 am 
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Neil wrote:
not errors , just nut cases ,, who wiped out japanese cities , just because they were losing ..
the only country in the world to use nukes on innocent civilans . :doh
never trust the yanks , yet we run around licking there butts like idiots ..


What utter tosh! The Americans had rolled back the Japanese island by island and fleet by fleet in the Pacific until they were within easy air range of Japan and you claim that they were losing?

The reason for the atomic bomb was because the Japanese refused to surrender any earlier. As far as killing innocent civilians is concerned, the Japanese have no moral high ground to claim. Look at what they did to the Chinese, the Filipinos, the Malaysians et al in SE Asia. All innocent civilians targeted by a fanatical people. Many, if not most of those who actually fought against the Japanese never forgave them because of the atrocities they committed. Now, suddenly rewriting history, you cast them as the innocents and the Americans as the aggressors! Unbelievable!

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Last edited by David G on Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:44 am 
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I think apologists for Russia forget that Russia allied itself with Nazi Germany to invade Poland and only changed sides when they in turn were stabbed in the back by the Nazi's.

Jim


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:03 pm 
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David G wrote:
Neil wrote:
SFD wrote:
not errors , just nut cases ,, who wiped out japanese cities , just because they were losing ..
the only country in the world to use nukes on innocent civilans . :doh
never trust the yanks , yet we run around licking there butts like idiots ..


What utter tosh! The Americans had rolled back the Japanese island by island and fleet by fleet in the Pacific until they were within easy air range of Japan and you claim that they were losing?

The reason for the atomic bomb was because the Japanese refused to surrender any earlier. As far as killing innocent civilians is concerned, the Japanese have no moral high ground to claim. Look at what they did to the Chinese, the Filipinos, the Malaysians et al in SE Asia. All innocent civilians targeted by a fanatical people. Many, if not most of those who actually fought against the Japanese never forgave them because of the atrocities they committed. Now, suddenly rewriting history, you cast them as the innocents and the Americans as the aggressors! Unbelievable!

David G ..... Please preview your proposed post, prior to committing it to public perusal.
It 'p's me off to read 'my one line comment' being expanded (under my name) to include 'three lines written by someone else' .... especially when I don't agree with his three lines !
Thank you.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:38 pm 
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SFD wrote:
David G ..... Please preview your proposed post, prior to committing it to public perusal.
It 'p's me off to read 'my one line comment' being expanded (under my name) to include 'three lines written by someone else' .... especially when I don't agree with his three lines !
Thank you.


My apologies SFD.

My response was clearly directed at Neil but as you correctly pointed out, in this particular case, I failed to proof read before posting.

Duly amended.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:49 pm 
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COYS wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
I have to say Neil that some of your comments surprise me, to say the least...you are just too blinkered to have a rational conversation with if Putin Russia or America is involved. And you bring up Hirosima? Why? I suppose we can forget the atrocities committed by the Japenese during the Second World War, against the Allies and Chinese..ever hear of the massacre of Nanking? Read your history before you make silly comments. And whilst I am not defending the use of Agent Orange during the Vietnam war, it was deployed as a WMD but as a deforestation agent.


Your even trying to spin this Evil act.... Words fail me :roll:

If anyone wants to see how Evil this agent orange was, google it, and see how generation after generation suffered...So please no lectures from the USA on war crimes.



I am not trying to spin anything, Agent Orange has proved to be a very nasty chemical, and hindsight being a wonderful gift should never have been deployed, but to suggest it was used as a Chemical weapon against the Vietnamese people is equally evocative.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:01 pm 
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David G wrote:
SFD wrote:
David G ..... Please preview your proposed post, prior to committing it to public perusal.
It 'p's me off to read 'my one line comment' being expanded (under my name) to include 'three lines written by someone else' .... especially when I don't agree with his three lines !
Thank you.


My apologies SFD.

My response was clearly directed at Neil but as you correctly pointed out, in this particular case, I failed to proof read before posting.

Duly amended.

Thanks, David.
No problem.
I'm not perfect either !
:bearhug


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:23 pm 
Hudswell wrote:
COYS wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
I have to say Neil that some of your comments surprise me, to say the least...you are just too blinkered to have a rational conversation with if Putin Russia or America is involved. And you bring up Hirosima? Why? I suppose we can forget the atrocities committed by the Japenese during the Second World War, against the Allies and Chinese..ever hear of the massacre of Nanking? Read your history before you make silly comments. And whilst I am not defending the use of Agent Orange during the Vietnam war, it was deployed as a WMD but as a deforestation agent.


Your even trying to spin this Evil act.... Words fail me :roll:

If anyone wants to see how Evil this agent orange was, google it, and see how generation after generation suffered...So please no lectures from the USA on war crimes.



I am not trying to spin anything, Agent Orange has proved to be a very nasty chemical, and hindsight being a wonderful gift should never have been deployed, but to suggest it was used as a Chemical weapon against the Vietnamese people is equally evocative.

Nothing evocative or hindsight about it.....what do you expect will happen when you purposefully fly over Villages, Spraying deadly chemicals...I could post photos of deformed baby's being born many many years after the war finished, such was the strength of this Evil, chemical....But that would upset many on here.....but lets not mention any of this..because the USA is our special friend. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Jim B wrote:
I think apologists for Russia forget that Russia allied itself with Nazi Germany to invade Poland and only changed sides when they in turn were stabbed in the back by the Nazi's.

Jim


Wonder why you forgot to mention The Italians who changed sides mid way through WW2!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Your even trying to spin this Evil act.... Words fail me :roll:

If anyone wants to see how Evil this agent orange was, google it, and see how generation after generation suffered...So please no lectures from the USA on war crimes.[/quote]


I am not trying to spin anything, Agent Orange has proved to be a very nasty chemical, and hindsight being a wonderful gift should never have been deployed, but to suggest it was used as a Chemical weapon against the Vietnamese people is equally evocative.[/quote]
Nothing evocative or hindsight about it.....what do you expect will happen when you purposefully fly over Villages, Spraying deadly chemicals...I could post photos of deformed baby's being born many many years after the war finished, such was the strength of this Evil, chemical....But that would upset many on here.....but lets not mention any of this..because the USA is our special friend. :roll:[/quote]

Didn't the Americans also use napalm when bombing The Vietnamese?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:42 pm 
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Neil wrote:
not errors , just nut cases ,, who wiped out japanese cities , just because they were losing ..
the only country in the world to use nukes on innocent civilans . :doh
never trust the yanks , yet we run around licking there butts like idiots ..


I remember reading an interesting article by an American General about the dropping of the Atomic weapons on Japan.

He said military opinion was deeply divided on it.

Those sitting safely back in the 'States behind a desk thought it was deplorable.

While those that were likely to be among the estimated two million Americans that would be killed attacking the Japanese mainland were unsurprisingly rather more in favour of it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
Jim B wrote:
I think apologists for Russia forget that Russia allied itself with Nazi Germany to invade Poland and only changed sides when they in turn were stabbed in the back by the Nazi's.

Jim


Wonder why you forgot to mention The Italians who changed sides mid way through WW2!!!!!!!!


Because no-one on this thread was an apologist for Italy though there are several on here who keep trying to paint Russia in a better light than it deserves. Also as Grump stated regarding probable Allied deaths during the invasion of Japan, well I know my father was one of many thousands of British Military who was heading down to join the invasion fleet and were turned around in the Bay of Biscay after the Japanese surrendered. Russia declared war on Japan a week before they surrendered and grabbed several islands off them and never returned them; nothing changes.

Jim


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
Your even trying to spin this Evil act.... Words fail me :roll:

If anyone wants to see how Evil this agent orange was, google it, and see how generation after generation suffered...So please no lectures from the USA on war crimes.



I am not trying to spin anything, Agent Orange has proved to be a very nasty chemical, and hindsight being a wonderful gift should never have been deployed, but to suggest it was used as a Chemical weapon against the Vietnamese people is equally evocative.[/quote]
Nothing evocative or hindsight about it.....what do you expect will happen when you purposefully fly over Villages, Spraying deadly chemicals...I could post photos of deformed baby's being born many many years after the war finished, such was the strength of this Evil, chemical....But that would upset many on here.....but lets not mention any of this..because the USA is our special friend. :roll:[/quote]

Didn't the Americans also use napalm when bombing The Vietnamese?[/quote]

Yes they did, as did Russia in Afganistan and Syria, well that might have been white phosphorus, an equally nasty piece of work...look guys you can discuss the benifits of humane or non humane weapons all you like! They fact is they all kill....Agent orange was a deforestation agent, it was later discovered that it had some horrible effects on humans...you know like Thalidomide, or how many pesticides that have been banned in recent years, or medicines that have proven not to be the panacea they appeared to be at first. The difference here is that Assad, intentionally has prior and did use again, Chemical weapons against his own people. Now there may be those of there who without being presented with absolute proof of these attacks will sit back quite happy and pontificate about how nasty the west in General is and the USA in particular are...and that all these terrorists would quite happily stay at home and not wish to impose their ideological hatred on you or yours...or indeed Mr Putin, Iran, or North Korea have not the slightest intent of furthering their own interests at what cost? Actually I prefer to go with the balance of proof and believe Assad deployed them munitions, possibly without the knowledge of Russia, with the intent of killing as many people as possible, in the most horrible manner...because he is evil. And I am quite happy that the West, including America are ready to stand up and stop him.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Unfortunately though, the USA, in their best gung ho manner, are heading headlong for an incident with Russia, and if Russians are killed in their next escapade, then Russia won't sit back. Europe is aware of the danger, as that utter oaf, Boris Johnson has found out whilst trying to get the G7 countries to force Russia into a corner, and Europe has realised the stupidity of attempting to do that.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:19 pm 
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And Putin isn't "Gung Ho" ? It is all Willy waving..and yes Boris overplayed it and I really do not believe more sanctions should be applied to Russia...but the G7 have stated that Assad should no be left in charge of Syria...Putin should respect that and realise he is backing a busted flush.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:17 pm 
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Yes, let's get rid of Assad, then we can have five or more factions fighting it out. An improvement? Reminds me of
Libya, Iraq, and other countries The West has interfered in. And of course, let us not forget Vietnam, but then the USA
were beaten and kicked out. That is why Vietnam is now the united country it is. Also, Syria will probably be secondary to the USA soon, when they attack North Korea, which could well be their second burning of their bums!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Yep, let's just stand by and let dictators exterminate ther own people...what exactly does that say about us? Or rather you? Looks like the UN are going vote on a full and thorough investigation into the "alleged" Sarin attacks in Syria.....looks like the Russians will veto the vote...and that says what?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... ack-probe/


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