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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Geoff the subject is Martin McGuinness not the rest of the persons involved in what happened in NI.

Also if you really listened to Mrs May she gave a good mention to his past and will she be at his funeral?
No is the answer and surprisingly enough TB and Bush have declined to go, that to me shows what they really thought about him.

I notice you failed to answer my questions about trusting convicted people.


In case you had not noticed Mrs May is rather tied up today post-terrorist attack.
A Minister from the Govt is attending on behalf of the UK.
Your questions were nothing to do with McGuinness. But my answers would have to be it depends on the person/s.
Everyone deserves respect and a second chance.
I have employed such a person in the past - I have sent you details by PM, they
are personal and not really for public forum.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:28 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:
For Hudswell:
I hope they gave you a medal for your trouble (not just a "campaign" medal).
If you read my very first post on this I said he was a bad guy turned good.
Nobody can condone what he was/did in his earlier life.
Which is exactly what the PM and Corbyn both said about McGuinness in the House yesterday.
I suppose you think they are wrong, barking up the wrong tree, also?
I suggest you are wearing blinkers, unable to see BOTH sides of the conflict, and only able
to see HM Forces there at the time as being just the good guys.
Clearly we shall just have to agree to disagree about all this, but whatever your views
and how ever much they are blinkered, at least show some respect for the man and his
efforts to bring about peace over there (whatever his motives, which don't mean a jot now anyway)
especially on the day of his funeral.
I have never seen so much hatred expressed on this forum as has been shown towards McGuinness.
Geoff.


Ouch that hurt Geoff, no "just" a campaign medal I am afraid, like the the many other Service personnel that deployed to the province, the same medal that some of them died for, and no doubt the same medal many others on this site were awarded. But out of all my honours and awards...it takes pride of place. And yes the Armed Forces deployed to the province, where we had a perfect right to be, after all NI is part of the U.K., were generally the good guys...and we knew exactly who the bad guys were, McGuinness being one of them, on both sides of the divide. Geoff you know nothing, I suspect you have had little life experience...oh sorry I forgot you were in the ACF...admirable but hardly a qualification, and know nothing about the Armed Forces. Respect has to be earnt and I am afraid this man has done nothing to earn my respect. Yes McGuinness did bring something to the peace process, leadership of the PIRA, which came to the table because his organisation was riddled with informants and British Agents, the intelligence community ensured that they could do little on the ground, the people had turned against their violence, sick of the intimidation, crime and murder...do you know what the troubles were actually about? Without using Google! It was about Republicans determined to achieve their aims by violent means...and the Unionists were by no means blameless. Mrs May was doing her duty in Parliament yesterday, as was the Queen when she met McGuinness, I somehow suspect their private thoughts reflected a somewhat different view. Corbyn is a Republican sympathiser who hardly reflects the wishes or views of the majority of his party...he was cringeworthy at best. I do not "hate" anybody....but I am not sorry that this evil man has passed, hopefully history will reflect the horror he bought to the People of Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom, it's civilians, the Armed Forces and their families. As Mr Tebbitt said.."The world is a sweeter place".


Last edited by Hudswell on Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:48 pm 
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:agree and well said Hudswell


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:02 pm 
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:goodpost Hudswell.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:41 pm 
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Hudswell wrote:
geoffreys wrote:
For Hudswell:
I hope they gave you a medal for your trouble (not just a "campaign" medal).
If you read my very first post on this I said he was a bad guy turned good.
Nobody can condone what he was/did in his earlier life.
Which is exactly what the PM and Corbyn both said about McGuinness in the House yesterday.
I suppose you think they are wrong, barking up the wrong tree, also?
I suggest you are wearing blinkers, unable to see BOTH sides of the conflict, and only able
to see HM Forces there at the time as being just the good guys.
Clearly we shall just have to agree to disagree about all this, but whatever your views
and how ever much they are blinkered, at least show some respect for the man and his
efforts to bring about peace over there (whatever his motives, which don't mean a jot now anyway)
especially on the day of his funeral.
I have never seen so much hatred expressed on this forum as has been shown towards McGuinness.
Geoff.


Ouch that hurt Geoff, no "just" a campaign medal I am afraid, like the the many other Service personnel that deployed to the province, the same medal that some of them died for, and no doubt the same medal many others on this site were awarded. But out of all my honours and awards...it takes pride of place. And yes the Armed Forces deployed to the province, where we had a perfect right to be, after all NI is part of the U.K., were generally the good guys...and we knew exactly who the bad guys were, McGuinness being one of them, on both sides of the divide. Geoff you know nothing, I suspect you have had little life experience...oh sorry I forgot you were in the ACF...admirable but hardly a qualification, and know nothing about the Armed Forces. Respect has to be earnt and I am afraid this man has done nothing to earn my respect. Yes McGuinness did bring something to the peace process, leadership of the PIRA, which came to the table because his organisation was riddled with informants and British Agents, the intelligence community ensured that they could do little on the ground, the people had turned against their violence, sick of the intimidation, crime and murder...do you know what the troubles were actually about? Without using Google! It was about Republicans determined to achieve their aims by violent means...and the Unionists were by no means blameless. Mrs May was doing her duty in Parliament yesterday, as was the Queen when she met McGuinness, I somehow suspect their private thoughts reflected a somewhat different view. Corbyn is a Republican sympathiser who hardly reflects the wishes or views of the majority of his party...he was cringeworthy at best. I do not "hate" anybody....but I am not sorry that this evil man has passed, hopefully history will reflect the horror he bought to the People of Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom, it's civilians, the Armed Forces and their families. As Mr Tebbitt said.."The world is a sweeter place".


The way you were talking I assumed you would have deserved a bravery medal or the like,
rather than a "I was there" medal.
You must have been overlooked.
I have not served in the regular armed forces so you are right about lack of experience there.
However not so in civvy street - but I do not need to prove that on here.
Northern Ireland is certainly a sweeter place thanks to the peace efforts of Martin McGuinness
as he got the ball rolling as it were, leading up to PM John Major's Friday agreement.
I notice none of you ex-squaddies care to comment on "bloody sunday", I wonder why not.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Geoffrey's, Having read your posts You come over as a very intelligent and very articulate man, we members must respect your thoughts and opinions, however I feel that your opinion needs further clarification of the facts. In my last post I did mention Bloody Sunday which you said no one did, I agreed possibly the troops overacted but they were being fired upon and faced a very hostile mob intent on killing them.
As you are obviously very computer orientated I kindly ask you to Google the following, the Lord Wigery investigation into the events of Bloody Sunday, in that report he states that the IRA fired the first shots and the Parachute Regiment responded with lethal force, he also stated that members of the IRA that were either killed & wounded were removed immediately after the shooting.
He is or was Britain's most senior Judge, since then to suit and appease the peace process they had a re-investigation and found the troops at fault, now I ask you which report is wrong the first or the second one you tell me.
During the troubles there were 763 Service men & police killed, there were 6116 service men & police wounded in one form or another, I was one wounded when a blast bomb was thrown at my patrol, I do not class all Irish as evil I am not polarised by the troubles far from it, I am married to a Northern Irish lass but McGuinness evil was and good riddance to him.
Note if you have trouble locating the information I suggested you read then I can point you in the right direction, For example read Tony Geraghty he will help you understand


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Geoffreys:

You are trying to defend the indefensible....

As has been mentioned elsewhere, without the likes of McGuinness and others (yes, on both sides) the British Army would have had no need to be there.

He was a murderer. He was the problem - not the solution.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Hudswell wrote:
geoffreys wrote:
For Hudswell:
I hope they gave you a medal for your trouble (not just a "campaign" medal).
If you read my very first post on this I said he was a bad guy turned good.
Nobody can condone what he was/did in his earlier life.
Which is exactly what the PM and Corbyn both said about McGuinness in the House yesterday.
I suppose you think they are wrong, barking up the wrong tree, also?
I suggest you are wearing blinkers, unable to see BOTH sides of the conflict, and only able
to see HM Forces there at the time as being just the good guys.
Clearly we shall just have to agree to disagree about all this, but whatever your views
and how ever much they are blinkered, at least show some respect for the man and his
efforts to bring about peace over there (whatever his motives, which don't mean a jot now anyway)
especially on the day of his funeral.
I have never seen so much hatred expressed on this forum as has been shown towards McGuinness.
Geoff.


Ouch that hurt Geoff, no "just" a campaign medal I am afraid, like the the many other Service personnel that deployed to the province, the same medal that some of them died for, and no doubt the same medal many others on this site were awarded. But out of all my honours and awards...it takes pride of place. And yes the Armed Forces deployed to the province, where we had a perfect right to be, after all NI is part of the U.K., were generally the good guys...and we knew exactly who the bad guys were, McGuinness being one of them, on both sides of the divide. Geoff you know nothing, I suspect you have had little life experience...oh sorry I forgot you were in the ACF...admirable but hardly a qualification, and know nothing about the Armed Forces. Respect has to be earnt and I am afraid this man has done nothing to earn my respect. Yes McGuinness did bring something to the peace process, leadership of the PIRA, which came to the table because his organisation was riddled with informants and British Agents, the intelligence community ensured that they could do little on the ground, the people had turned against their violence, sick of the intimidation, crime and murder...do you know what the troubles were actually about? Without using Google! It was about Republicans determined to achieve their aims by violent means...and the Unionists were by no means blameless. Mrs May was doing her duty in Parliament yesterday, as was the Queen when she met McGuinness, I somehow suspect their private thoughts reflected a somewhat different view. Corbyn is a Republican sympathiser who hardly reflects the wishes or views of the majority of his party...he was cringeworthy at best. I do not "hate" anybody....but I am not sorry that this evil man has passed, hopefully history will reflect the horror he bought to the People of Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom, it's civilians, the Armed Forces and their families. As Mr Tebbitt said.."The world is a sweeter place".



:agree
:goodpost
I too remember a phone call in the early hours from my son who had just seen his mates blown up in NI and knew I would see it on the news when I got up and wanted me to know he was ok. I will never forget his broken voice and his tears.
Yes, the world is a better place without him and his ilk.Switching sides to escape prosecution is not worthy of respect in my book.
Thank you for your service Hudswell x


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:34 pm 
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CyprusGrump wrote:
Geoffreys:

You are trying to defend the indefensible....

As has been mentioned elsewhere, without the likes of McGuinness and others (yes, on both sides) the British Army would have had no need to be there.

He was a murderer. He was the problem - not the solution.

Image



:congrats
Poignant and true.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Ouch, going for the Jugular there Geoff, yes "I Was there" and just got the "I was there" medal, just for doing my job, which just happened to involve putting myself in harms way, like many other thousands of troops did for "just being there". As for Bloody Sunday, not an auspicious occasion for the Parachute Regiment, but it is impossible to imagine the situation on the ground, and the build up to the March and subsequent shootings unless you were there. This article from the Telegraph gives perhaps a flavour:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... eline.html

It is alleged, although never proven, that McGinness fired the first round from a sub machine gun.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:24 am 
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For there to be forgiveness there must first be remorse. Which is why McGuiness will rot in hell.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:38 am 
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Hudswell wrote:
Ouch, going for the Jugular there Geoff, yes "I Was there" and just got the "I was there" medal, just for doing my job, which just happened to involve putting myself in harms way, like many other thousands of troops did for "just being there". As for Bloody Sunday, not an auspicious occasion for the Parachute Regiment, but it is impossible to imagine the situation on the ground, and the build up to the March and subsequent shootings unless you were there. This article from the Telegraph gives perhaps a flavour:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... eline.html

It is alleged, although never proven, that McGinness fired the first round from a sub machine gun.


Never proved.
End of!
Geoff.
P.S. I liked Bill Clinton's speech at the funeral.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:23 am 
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Nope, if Anything he was a very clever man....a lot of evil men are..and there were many crimes he committed or planned..If any were proven then he would have spent a lifetime in jail...he got a "get out of jail card".


Last edited by Hudswell on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:44 am 
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geoffreys wrote:
Never proved.
End of!


Nor disproved...

But then, I'd imagine that it was hard to find witnesses to testify against a man that wouldn't think twice about having you killed - or doing it himself?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:12 am 
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Oh he was very good at cleaning up...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Hopefully they made him comfortable in his coffin lining it with Simtex and making his pillow out of dynamite!
:explode


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Paul & Lesley wrote:
Hopefully they made him comfortable in his coffin lining it with Simtex and making his pillow out of dynamite!
:explode


What a horrible thing to say. I suggest you keep your disgusting thoughts to yourself.
R.I.P. MMG
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Paul and Lesley :agree

Geoffrey, Methinks that you are a hypocrite.

You take umbridge at Paul and Lesley's suggestion (Just how many did McGuinness kill and or maim?) yet on the Words from the front line thread you suggest that terrorists should be electrocuted with 5000 volts!

Get a grip man the whole world knows he was a terrorist and a killer.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Paul and Lesley :agree

Geoffrey, Methinks that you are a hypocrite.

You take umbridge at Paul and Lesley's suggestion (Just how many did McGuinness kill and or maim?) yet on the Words from the front line thread you suggest that terrorists should be electrocuted with 5000 volts!

Get a grip man the whole world knows he was a terrorist and a killer.


The 5000 volts post you refer to was a sarcastic response to a post which was clearly
suggesting (by implication) even worse.
Going by the hatred expressed on this thread towards MMG I think you and others would have liked MMG to have been subjected to 5000 volts.
In my book such hatred is almost as bad as what you/they accuse MMG of.
All along my point about MMG is that however bad he was, he reformed and drove the peace process to a successful conclusion.
I am sorry you are in denial about that.
Not me who is the hypocrite on this forum.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:20 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:
All along my point about MMG is that however bad he was, he reformed and drove the peace process to a successful conclusion.


FFS Geoffreys!

The Peace Process ended a shocking period of violence which McGuinness personally had a hand in creating. He had blood on his hands! He was a murderer.

He could have started the peace process earlier (or better still, not have started murdering innocent men, women and children in the first place) but it didn't suit his agenda.

Christus, in your world if somebody mugs you, beats you up, steals your wallet and car but leaves you the bus fare home they are a saint!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:26 pm 
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CyprusGrump wrote:
geoffreys wrote:
All along my point about MMG is that however bad he was, he reformed and drove the peace process to a successful conclusion.


FFS Geoffreys!

The Peace Process ended a shocking period of violence which McGuinness personally had a hand in creating. He had blood on his hands! He was a murderer.

He could have started the peace process earlier (or better still, not have started murdering innocent men, women and children in the first place) but it didn't suit his agenda.

Christus, in your world if somebody mugs you, beats you up, steals your wallet and car but leaves you the bus fare home they are a saint!


Here we go again, this topic is just being argued round and around.
MMG was a murderer etc, I never said he wasn't. There was blood on his hands etc but there was blood on the hands of many loyalists too.
Maybe he could have started the peace process earlier, but at least he started it eventually.
All I was saying, as has been said also by many prominent people such as the PM, Corbyn, and Clinton, was that now he died he should be given the credit for that peace process.
I think the hatred expressed on this topic on this forum is disgusting.
Look, I have said my bit. I am not going to keep on repeating myself.
Why don't you talk about something really seriously bad like "IS" in Syria, Iraq, etc?
And show some respect for the dead.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:41 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:
CyprusGrump wrote:
geoffreys wrote:
All along my point about MMG is that however bad he was, he reformed and drove the peace process to a successful conclusion.


FFS Geoffreys!

The Peace Process ended a shocking period of violence which McGuinness personally had a hand in creating. He had blood on his hands! He was a murderer.

He could have started the peace process earlier (or better still, not have started murdering innocent men, women and children in the first place) but it didn't suit his agenda.

Christus, in your world if somebody mugs you, beats you up, steals your wallet and car but leaves you the bus fare home they are a saint!


Here we go again, this topic is just being argued round and around.
MMG was a murderer etc, I never said he wasn't. There was blood on his hands etc but there was blood on the hands of many loyalists too.
Maybe he could have started the peace process earlier, but at least he started it eventually.
All I was saying, as has been said also by many prominent people such as the PM, Corbyn, and Clinton, was that now he died he should be given the credit for that peace process.
I think the hatred expressed on this topic on this forum is disgusting.
Look, I have said my bit. I am not going to keep on repeating myself.
Why don't you talk about something really seriously bad like "IS" in Syria, Iraq, etc?
And show some respect for the dead.
Geoff.


De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum?

Yes normally... But I feel the need to make an exception in the case of this vile creature...

And I'm sure those that lost their loved ones because of his actions are too.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Like McGuinness did Geoff? There are still bodies missing who died as a result of McGuinness, and he never showed one ounce of remorse. You may believe you are defending the moral high ground here Geoff, you are not, you change your viewpoint more often than the wind changes..McGuinness was not a hero, he was a convicted terrorist who to escape a very long time in prison decided to legitimise his murderous campaign of fear....a very clever man, but a murderer, who if there was any justice in this world should have been locked away. The platitudes he has received ring hollow, and you may have noted how coverage of his funeral etc was somewhat muted after the terrorist incident in London, why because he is cut from the same cloth, and if you cannot accept that then I pity you.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Hudswell wrote:
Like McGuinness did Geoff? There are still bodies missing who died as a result of McGuinness, and he never showed one ounce of remorse. You may believe you are defending the moral high ground here Geoff, you are not, you change your viewpoint more often than the wind changes..McGuinness was not a hero, he was a convicted terrorist who to escape a very long time in prison decided to legitimise his murderous campaign of fear....a very clever man, but a murderer, who if there was any justice in this world should have been locked away. The platitudes he has received ring hollow, and you may have noted how coverage of his funeral etc was somewhat muted after the terrorist incident in London, why because he is cut from the same cloth, and if you cannot accept that then I pity you.


Quite.

Even on his death bed he couldn't do the decent thing and reveal the locations of the missing dead...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:27 pm 
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There are some major facts being overlooked which seem to lead people into believing that Martin McGuinness was a prime mover of peace in Northern Ireland. He most certainly was not.

The Good Friday agreement was signed on 10 Apr 98. It was primarily between the Irish Government, the British Government and 8 of the NI political parties, which included Sinn Fein. However, they were not the primary representatives of the nationalist catholic community at that time - they were brought to the table rather reluctantly as political events would otherwise have passed them by and they would have been completely sidelined as a political party.

The main nationalist party at that time was the SDLP led by John Hume and the main unionist party was the Ulster Unionist Party led by David Trimble. These two individuals were the ones who engineered the Good Friday Agreement which earned them both the Nobel Peace Prize in 1998. John Hume is credited with being the leading light for peace in Northern Ireland and in addition to the Nobel Peace prize, he was also awarded the Gandhi Peace Prize and the Martin Luther King Award - the only recipient ever of the three major peace awards. The newly formed NI Assembly with David Trimble (UUP) as First Minister and Seamus Mallon (SDLP) as Deputy First Minister took office later in 1998.

What was Martin McGuinness doing at that time you may well ask? Well let's not forget that he was the Chief of Staff of the Provisional IRA and a lifelong member of the IRA Council. The Provisional IRA did not decommission their arsenal of weapons until (supposedly) 2005 (seven long years after the Good Friday Agreement) although in 2011 when a supporter at a nationalist rally shouted out "bring back the IRA" Gerry Adams was caught saying on live TV "they haven't gone away you know".

Martin McGuinness a man of peace? Yeah, right! Does the fact that Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and Martin McGuinness are all now dead mean that we overlook what they were responsible for during their lives out of some misguided respect for the dead? I think not.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:25 pm 
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David G wrote:
There are some major facts being overlooked which seem to lead people into believing that Martin McGuinness was a prime mover of peace in Northern Ireland. He most certainly was not.

The Good Friday agreement was signed on 10 Apr 98. It was primarily between the Irish Government, the British Government and 8 of the NI political parties, which included Sinn Fein. However, they were not the primary representatives of the nationalist catholic community at that time - they were brought to the table rather reluctantly as political events would otherwise have passed them by and they would have been completely sidelined as a political party.

The main nationalist party at that time was the SDLP led by John Hume and the main unionist party was the Ulster Unionist Party led by David Trimble. These two individuals were the ones who engineered the Good Friday Agreement which earned them both the Nobel Peace Prize in 1998. John Hume is credited with being the leading light for peace in Northern Ireland and in addition to the Nobel Peace prize, he was also awarded the Gandhi Peace Prize and the Martin Luther King Award - the only recipient ever of the three major peace awards. The newly formed NI Assembly with David Trimble (UUP) as First Minister and Seamus Mallon (SDLP) as Deputy First Minister took office later in 1998.

What was Martin McGuinness doing at that time you may well ask? Well let's not forget that he was the Chief of Staff of the Provisional IRA and a lifelong member of the IRA Council. The Provisional IRA did not decommission their arsenal of weapons until (supposedly) 2005 (seven long years after the Good Friday Agreement) although in 2011 when a supporter at a nationalist rally shouted out "bring back the IRA" Gerry Adams was caught saying on live TV "they haven't gone away you know".

Martin McGuinness a man of peace? Yeah, right! Does the fact that Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and Martin McGuinness are all now dead mean that we overlook what they were responsible for during their lives out of some misguided respect for the dead? I think not.


Thanks for that.
So our Prime Minister (Mrs May), leader of the official opposition (Corbyn), and Bill Clinton all got it wrong.
Wow.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Cheers David, a potted history from someone who is probablymore aware of the facts than anyone on this site. And Geoff, as I said previously Mrs May, she was doing her duty as the PM of the United Kingdom and rightly so, Corbyn is a long time Republican Supporter, and I do not really care what Clinton thinks...the USA stopped supporting the "cause" after 9/11 when the effect of terrorism finally hit home.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Geoff ....

Clinton .... did not stop funds being collected for the IRA, in McDonald's cafes in the US !!!
Corbyn .... ???
May ... Just being pragmatic at this difficult time.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:58 pm 
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SFD wrote:
Geoff ....

Clinton .... did not stop funds being collected for the IRA, in McDonald's cafes in the US !!!
Corbyn .... ???
May ... Just being pragmatic at this difficult time.


I think we know where Comrade Corbyn stands on the IRA...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:16 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:

Thanks for that.
So our Prime Minister (Mrs May), leader of the official opposition (Corbyn), and Bill Clinton all got it wrong.
Wow.
Geoff.


It's called statesmanship Geoff.

Sometimes, things are said (or not said) and done (or not done) for the greater national good.

I'm sure that the Royal Family did not particularly relish the state visits of President Ceausescu in 1978, President Mugabe in 1994, President Putin in 2003, President Xi Jinping or King Abdullah in 2015.

By the same token, our Prime Minister will put the national interest before her personal views (Brexit itself being a case in point). Martin McGuinness, like him or loathe him, was the last Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, where peace still hangs by a thread. To that end, she was required to display statesmanship. It doesn't mean that she had to be sincere or that he was really a man of peace.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:02 pm 
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David G - incredible clarity. :clap

This man has been cloaked in mysticism for so long it's understandable how some are taken in, both by the cloak and dagger and by the supposed respect for the dead. Why should we respect a murderer, a protagonist, a warmongerer simply because he has died? Does his death make him less of a murderer, does it negate or wash his sins? Does it resolve the heartache of the families he decimated, the children he left fatherless, the women he left widowed?

For me a resounding no. And in no way does his duplicity in the peace process endear him to me either, particularly given David G's summary above.

As I have posted before, without remorse there is simply no forgiveness. This murderer has never ever even whispered one word of remorse. Quite the reverse.

I should add, just in case his demise may be imminent, my sentiments apply absolutely equally to his partner in crime, Gerry Adams. Equally fork tongued, equally duplicitous, equally with blood on his hands til eternity.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:55 am 
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George wrote:
David G - incredible clarity. :clap

This man has been cloaked in mysticism for so long it's understandable how some are taken in, both by the cloak and dagger and by the supposed respect for the dead. Why should we respect a murderer, a protagonist, a warmongerer simply because he has died? Does his death make him less of a murderer, does it negate or wash his sins? Does it resolve the heartache of the families he decimated, the children he left fatherless, the women he left widowed?

For me a resounding no. And in no way does his duplicity in the peace process endear him to me either, particularly given David G's summary above.

As I have posted before, without remorse there is simply no forgiveness. This murderer has never ever even whispered one word of remorse. Quite the reverse.

I should add, just in case his demise may be imminent, my sentiments apply absolutely equally to his partner in crime, Gerry Adams. Equally fork tongued, equally duplicitous, equally with blood on his hands til eternity.


So why don't your sentiments equally apply to the Loyalists?
Whether you like it or not they were all fighting for what they believed in.
So, in the end they realized that peace was a better option.
In that context they were all Freedom fighters.
I repeat, just this one more time, Martin McGuinness R.I.P.
Geoff.


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