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 Post subject: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:20 am
Posts: 210
Location: Argaka, near Polis
We have decided that next winter we shall have a woodburning stove fitted in our bungalow. Our gas fires are fine but leave an enormous amount of condensation, which we hate.

I searched the forum and found pretty clear indications that Thermodynamics was probably the place to go (at least initially) and so off I popped to have a look at their website. But their website is no longer active and it caused me to wonder why. I know companies forget to renew their hosting from time to time, and this would be the simplest explanation.

We don't go down to Paphos that regularly and so were wondering what the situation was. As we shall not be having a stove installed until late summer in 2017 (I get another pension in February, which will provide the funding for all of this), there is no urgency to this enquiry. But if anyone knows what the situation is, and possibly any other local companies they can recommend from personal experience, I should be grateful.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:20 am 
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I am sure they are still around. not the cheapest but their products, fitting and service are very good.


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:26 am 
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Location: Argaka, near Polis
Thanks for that. I could tell from other posts that they were not the cheapest, but I suspect that we shall only be doing this once. In which case we want to deal with a company that will still be around, and offers the right kit and installation - the price is not the key issue (although I don't want to spend more than I have to, which is something of a contradiction).

If we were in Paphos more often, then it would be easy to see whether they were still operating.

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Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. (Ovid)


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Location: Sea Caves darlings!, Peyia actually!
I can highly recommend them. We had a log burner fitted 2 years ago and I wish we'd had it done sooner! I think they are reasonably priced for the quality of their product. Yes, you can get cheaper log burners of course but we are very happy with the one we were sold. I had a problem with chimney when lighting this winter, and they came out the same morning, cleaned chimney which was a major job due to dead pigeons, argh! Cleaned up everything after and fire is working fine again.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:02 pm
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Location: Choulou, Where there is more sun than the UK
Go for a 6 inch stainless steel flue pipe, with a T peace outside so you can clean the flue outside.

do not buy steel flue pipe as they will rust and any acid in the gasses will rot the pipe!

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:51 pm 
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Location: Argaka, near Polis
Paul, there's more to this than I thought. Thanks for the tip. We have a fireplace and chimney and assumed the flue would be routed up the chimney. Other people's hard-won and vital experience is invaluable. Thank you.

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Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. (Ovid)


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4556
Location: Peyia
We bought our log burner 4 years ago from Thermodynamics

They are absolutely professional and do an amazing job

They will advise on which way to do the pipe work to best suit your fireplace and needs

They will also advise on size and type of fire for your property

We thought that we would need a 12 kw when in fact we only needed an 8 kw as advised by them
We are snug and warm with no condensation or damp anywhere in the bungalow

Best thing that we ever did and best product as lots of cheaper variations around and you want this to be a for life buy and best company


Last edited by migmogs on Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4556
Location: Peyia
Tallulah Savage wrote:
I can highly recommend them. We had a log burner fitted 2 years ago and I wish we'd had it done sooner! I think they are reasonably priced for the quality of their product. Yes, you can get cheaper log burners of course but we are very happy with the one we were sold. I had a problem with chimney when lighting this winter, and they came out the same morning, cleaned chimney which was a major job due to dead pigeons, argh! Cleaned up everything after and fire is working fine again.


We have put fine gauge chicken mesh around the chimney top, it stops birds going in there and nesting


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:20 am
Posts: 210
Location: Argaka, near Polis
migmogs wrote:
Tallulah Savage wrote:
I can highly recommend them. We had a log burner fitted 2 years ago and I wish we'd had it done sooner! I think they are reasonably priced for the quality of their product. Yes, you can get cheaper log burners of course but we are very happy with the one we were sold. I had a problem with chimney when lighting this winter, and they came out the same morning, cleaned chimney which was a major job due to dead pigeons, argh! Cleaned up everything after and fire is working fine again.


We have put fine gauge chicken mesh around the chimney top, it stops birds going in there and nesting


Yes, we did that to stop the lizards visiting. Our cats could hear them behind the fitted board we have in front of the fire and would go berserk .

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Perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim.

Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. (Ovid)


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:27 am
Posts: 2245
Location: Kamares Village
migmogs wrote:
We have put fine gauge chicken mesh around the chimney top, it stops birds going in there and nesting

be careful, as the mesh will be clogged and airflow will be poor - your house will smell as a ... well you should know :)
I did once the mistake using a piece of metal mosquito net :(


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:39 pm 
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Location: Kamares Village
MacManiac wrote:
We have decided that next winter we shall have a woodburning stove fitted in our bungalow. Our gas fires are fine but leave an enormous amount of condensation, which we hate.

I searched the forum and found pretty clear indications that Thermodynamics was probably the place to go (at least initially) and so off I popped to have a look at their website. But their website is no longer active and it caused me to wonder why. I know companies forget to renew their hosting from time to time, and this would be the simplest explanation.

We don't go down to Paphos that regularly and so were wondering what the situation was. As we shall not be having a stove installed until late summer in 2017 (I get another pension in February, which will provide the funding for all of this), there is no urgency to this enquiry. But if anyone knows what the situation is, and possibly any other local companies they can recommend from personal experience, I should be grateful.

If you'll find my old posts here, you would know - I bought for 1/2 price same kind wood-burning insertion (got one with right size, just added a few yellow bricks under), installed by myself; only additional expenses was a buy from TD store good stainless steel flex pipe for e200.

Here is a picture of my setup: Image. Made in Greece.


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4556
Location: Peyia
Sergio

Thank you for the warning re our single layer mesh around chimney

For us lots of air gets through and our fire burns hot and bright

Plus we also have a carbon monoxide alarm machine to make sure that we are not being poisoned by bad air, as a safety factor for our wood burner

It has never gone off ever, but it is there as a back up, to make sure that we are always safe


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:51 am
Posts: 367
Wood burners are a great invention- far more efficient than a open fire.

There is however one big disadvantage to their use in Cyprus- lack of insulation in the houses.

In a "normal" insulated house you can put the wood burner on and use it as the manufacturers would recommend- ie use the exothermic nature of dry wood to create an initial heat burst to warm up a room, and then allow the burning embers to produce sufficient heat to keep the room warm

It's not that simple in Cyprus - the heat dissipates so quickly through the usually non insulated walls means that you are constantly throwing fresh wood onto the embers to create the flames that produces the higher heat output

That in turn leads to a huge amount of ash that makes it increasingly difficult to get more wood on as the evening progresses!

So yes they work in so much as they give out lots of heat, but keeping your house will involve using a lot more wood than you might normally expect a wood burner to go through.

To that end you should make sure you get a wood burner with a "high" energy output ie a "big" one - the calibrated output is based on little more than the amount of capacity you have to put the wood in.

You might only need 4kw of heat, but come 9pm you won't get that because you can't get any more wood into your fire without burning hot embers falling out, and you'll burn your eyebrows off trying to get some of the embers out in order to get more wood in (that process being hassle free requires 8kw worth of "space" ;) )


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:08 pm
Posts: 1092
Location: Peyia
Our logs go on a rack a few inches above the floor of the wood burner so the ash goes down to the bottom and the logs stay on top.
The whole stove stays warm for a couple of hours after we have put on the last log.


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4556
Location: Peyia
We have an 8 KW fire, which is not much bigger than the 4KW fire and it never fills with Ash by evening time

We empty the ash every morning and our fire burns bright and hot all day and evening in the cold weather.

On extremely cold weather times we burn the fire 24 hours a day!

We wouldn't,t be without ours ever as the heat is a hotter drier heat which is much better for your house. We have no condensation at all in our house.

We have an excellent supplier of seasoned Carob, Olive hard woods that we buy in the summer months and store in a wood shed

Thermodynamics sorted out the size of fire that we needed and explained that no soft woods are to burned ever on the fire, as they cause tar too form on the inside of the flu

you are right that these houses have no insulation and soon get cold

we follow the local Cypriots though and let as much sunlight in as we can during the day and close the shutters and curtains to build up the heat as soon as the sun starts to set

and even with very high ceilings and a large open plan type room, we are as snug as bugs in a rug and not cold at all


Last edited by migmogs on Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:20 am
Posts: 210
Location: Argaka, near Polis
I've learned more about log burners from this thread, and a couple of PMs, than I ever thought I would need to know. Whichever route we go down, it will be an expensive enterprise so I am determined to get it right and only have to do it once. My dear wife agrees as she has plans for my extra pension, after we have sorted the log burner. Thanks to all who contributed to my non-existent knowledge ...

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Perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim.

Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. (Ovid)


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4556
Location: Peyia
Enjoy your purchase
IF bought correctly this wonderful addition to your home will last many many years without breaking down, so well worth the outlay
There are different costs out there from cheap ones up
We personally chose, because of information gained on here, to go top end with our purchase and have never looked back
and just think, this time next year, you will be like us snug, hot and dry :grin:

Any questions please ask


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:27 am
Posts: 2245
Location: Kamares Village
Definitely, thermal insulation of your local house is must
(I did that on next year of my living here, after freezing winter months regardless how much wood or gas I burned)


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:47 am 
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We purchased a log burner from Thermodynamics 9 years ago - best investment we ever made - house is timber-frame and insulated but it does get chilly up here and the log burner heats the whole of downstairs with ease - highly recommend using the company and its products

Chris

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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:20 am
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Location: Argaka, near Polis
"The best laid plans of mice and men" meant that our plans to install a wood burner before next winter were stil being debated. As we rent our house we had to decide whether we really wanted to pay for a wood burner in someone else's property. Well the damp and the condensation of the last couple of months just about convinced us to bite the bullet, but then the mould appeared.

My lovely landlord Savvas appeared with first a civil engineer, and then a builder, and then a decorator, and they all had different views as to the cause of this outbreak. It was decided to send in a team to clean the mould, and service and clean the air conditioning (as apparently this can cause the spores to spread). Then the whole interior of the house was to be decorated with anti-fungal paint.

But two of the experts concluded that, whilst this might make a difference, the house needed to be heated more effectively. I missed that bit of the conversation, as my Greek was not up to the task. Savvas returned to tell me he was going to get a quote to install gas central heating. A friend had this installed in a larger house and the cost was eye-watering. So, on the principle of "nothing ventured, nothing gained" I suggested getting a wood burner installed.

I outlined the benefits and he was off like a shot to our local installer Bioenergy in Polis, which is highly regarded. (http://www.ambioenergy.com). Three hours later he returned with one of the partners, who was up on the roof to check the chimney, and then to investigate whether there was sufficient "draw" as our fireplace was very smoky and we no longer use it. The conclusion was that it would be fine and so a convection stove was recommended (10 Kw) which would fit into the fireplace, with the flue in the chimney. Apparently it would only take a day to install.

So our plan to install a wood burner at our own expense was confined to history. What a result. It must have been the discussion I had with the engineer when I mentioned that, unless the damp and condensation and the mould was resolved, we would start looking for another property.

As Churchill said, "Action this day".

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Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. (Ovid)


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:37 am 
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Good result :) However unless you attend also to ventilation I suspect your condensation problem will remain. The problem is that warm air holds more water and that water comes from your breathing. When it meets a cold surface - the windows or walls - it condenses. The heating may warm the walls and windows but it doesn't get rid of the problem - the water. For that you need airflow and Cyprus houses don't have air bricks and when cold you tend to close the windows so the damp air is trapped.


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:11 am 
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Location: Tala
Quote:
The heating may warm the walls and windows but it doesn't get rid of the problem - the water.


A dehumidifier is what you need to remove the water from the air.
It serves to improve the heating benefits from your log burner too, as dry air feels a lot warmer than wet air.

You will be amazed the moisture absorbed by clothes fabrics, which can be removed by regularly using a dehumidifier.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:25 am 
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Location: Argaka, near Polis
We already use a dehumidifier, although mainly in our bedroom. It takes a lot of moisture out of the air but the condensation and mould still invade. The situation, strangely, has become worse in the last twelve months.

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Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. (Ovid)


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:17 am 
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Quote:
The situation, strangely, has become worse in the last twelve months.


It may be that you should check for a leak in your plumbing system.

Is there a particular area showing signs of mold or is it widespread?

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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:35 am 
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Location: Argaka, near Polis
That's already been checked. The mould is in places adjacent to doors and windows, where the condensation runs down the inside of the windows and then collects.

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Perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim.

Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. (Ovid)


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:53 am 
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Location: Tala
Quote:
The mould is in places adjacent to doors and windows, where the condensation runs down the inside of the windows and then collects.


I'd suggest the cause is simply a lack of ventilation, though like you I don't understand why this should worsen "in the last year", unless weather conditions are the cause or you have increased the inside temperature of your rooms by using a gas heater.

You could try temporary double glazing fitted during the winter months or a small granular dehumidifier located adjacent to the window.

Hopefully your situation should be improved after the log burner is fitted, but don't stop using the dehumidifier.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:57 pm 
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I remember a few years ago a member on one of the forums was always posting about the need for air bricks, but it turned out that he was selling air bricks!

I am not saying that those who advocate air bricks are wrong, but it is worth bearing in mind that, if you have a chimney, the draw of air from that should be way greater than you would get from an air brick, plus, given the levels of humidity here, it is entirely possible that you could be pulling in air which more damp than that in the house.


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 Post subject: Re: Thermodynamics ...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 am
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Location: Peyia
The only property that we have lived in that gave us huge condensation problems like the ones you are talking about...was a property without proper heating ...eg no log burner ....it had a mobile gas fire for heat And it had single glazing...it was a nightmare...even with the windows left open the windows and door frames ran constantly with water..it was that house that made us realize that we needed proper heating like a wood burner to live winters over here.

The house that we now live in...had damp, mold issues when we moved in...it was solved that first winter by having our wood burner fitted and the house benefited from having that fabulous dry heat that the wood burner produces...we have had no mold issues since and we have lived here now for almost 6 years...we do though have double glazing ...which also helps

And we do put the box crystals to take any water out of the air in all of the wardrobes and bathrooms...and change them every few months...even through the summer

Best of luck...the log burner will make a huge difference to your life


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