Paphos People

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/ ... e-juncker/
Bring it on!

Why should the EU have Brexit talks with the UK when the UK hasn't officially said it is leaving? That would be putting the cart before the horse. I want to keep my EU citizenship but it would appear the UK is going to revoke it.

Well it only seems fair as the Eu seems intent on not allowing the UK to participate fully in proceedings since it voted to leave...Malta have declared that the UK will not be invited to its next summit...

http://www.politico.eu/article/malta-se ... at-brexit/

The EU is showing its true colours...a bitter and twisted organisation....I expected more from Malta.

Just as the UK is trying to work out it's negotiating position so too is the EU. It would be stupid to invite the U.K. to be at the EU's discussion. Dos the EU get invited to UK cabinet meetings?

What were expecting when the UK handed it's notice in...a champagne party and red carpet to the exit door?

In a business context, as a small business in Cyprus we have a small number of very important relationships with a number of key suppliers worldwide. I know that if at some point I was to give them the heave-ho, calling them all sorts of ugly names (Boris and Farage-style) in the process, I would not be anticipate any further contractual favours from them...and I would them expect them to team up with one of our competitors in re-establishing themselves and making life hard for us.

On the TV news a day or two ago the reporter asked people from various EU countries what they thought the EU's approach should be in the forthcoming negotiations. All to a man were unsympathetic and pretty much said: "The UK got itself into this situation...don't expect us to bail you out and make life easy for you". Can't blame them one little bit.

Things are about to get a whole lot more difficult for the UK as 'negotiations' loom large, and despite her platitudes to camera, deep down Theresa May know it.

I think the point for me is the age old problem with the EU, this isn't a decision made by EU elected mbers, or indeed the collective countries, it's yet another edict from the odious Juncker. I'm really fed up of the continuous warnings on one topic or another coming from individual people and this is yet another one. I've also just seen on the news that the negotiations are to be conducted in French, why???

I'm also very surprised at Malta, as others have said, until 2 years after Article 50 is invoked the UK is still a contributing member of the EU, so why should it be excluded from anything? There have been many comments about the UK not having a plan for Brexit, but what about the EU? It would appear the same is true of that body as no one there seems to be doing anything but determining that whatever happens it will be as nasty as possible.

Significant too, but unsurprising, he is forbidding any talks pre Article 50 with UK, but how many talks are going on in the EU without U.K. being present? The meeting held at the summit is typical, in spite of still being a fully contributing member, Cameron was excluded from a discussion they had about Brexit.

Likewise, May was excluded from the Bratislava meeting. Again, this was not a decision taken by the elected members, nor the collective countries, but yet another individual, Merkel.

Just when was it democracy exited the EU?

===
Agree. And -

Good luck with the business. I fear difficult and uncertain times now, for many years to come.

You can't really argue that it is about personalities. Even the Telegraph doesn't know whom to attack. One day it is Tusk, then Malta, then Juncker, then Merkel, then Hollande... etc.
The EU has united very well. And for obvious reasons. Did anyone expect otherwise?
Frankly, I don't think any of the English politicians had a plan for Brexit! One mega-mess.

_________________
"You cannot talk sense to a fool" - Proverbs 23:9

Good luck with the business. I fear difficult and uncertain times now, for many years to come. That will depend on the attitude of the 28 countries involved ( At home, I like my neighbours but they do not decide how I live or tell me who I must/must not trade with to support my life).

You can't really argue that it is about personalities. Even the Telegraph doesn't know whom to attack. One day it is Tusk, then Malta, then Juncker, then Merkel, then Hollande... etc. Some of those politicians, who are complaining & issuing threats, may not be in power for much longer. They are 'grand-standing' to affect their electorate or further their careers.
The EU has united very well. And for obvious reasons. Did anyone expect otherwise? Even America and Canada can see how 'united' (?) the EU is at present !
Frankly, I don't think any of the English politicians had a plan for Brexit! One mega-mess. Neither have the EU politicians. They did not expect the UK to vote for Brexit and have nothing in place to 'fill the gap' which will be left.

I do find it strange that the same people who were creating
about the right to debate on another thread are more than happy for individuals such as Juncker and Merkel to make decisions about the UK, with no debate whatsoever.

_________________
And the Oscar goes to........

I'd expect the EU to behave in an adult and intelligent manner, not like a spoilt child throwing a tantrum. I haven't seen our PM behaving badly as yet, she seems to be handling herself impeccably, perhaps it will rub off on there, who knows?!

_________________
And the Oscar goes to........

I imagine the reason for the behaviour of people like Merkel and Juncker is twofold. Firstly, they know that the UK is a massive contributor to the EU which will leave a
large black hole if/when we leave, so will attempt to make that activity as difficult and unpleasant as possible in the hope the UK decides in the end not to bother. And secondly as a warning to other EU countries whose populations would actually quite like to leave as well (and there are a number I believe) to use the way the UK will be treated as an example to anybody else thinking of leaving.

The way things are going with May now saying that there will have to be a Parliamentary vote on the exit terms I suspect, as I have all along, that the Commons will not pass the required legislation and the exit will never actually take place.

Gosh, that will be an awful lot of unemployed politicians come next election, if they pee off 17.4 million voters !!!!!
No great loss.
Perhaps they could get the rents off the social for the immigrants that will flood into the country because Merkel said so.

The point is...until the UK leaves, even afternoon the "button" is pushed, it is a fully paid up contributing member of the EU, and if there is a EU summit then it should include ALL members, sneaky talking behind the UKs back whilst forbidding any "pre-talks" just highlights everything that is wrong with this organisation....even the Canadians have thrown their hands up in despair in regard to "grown up" discussions leading to a trade agreement. Of course future discussions will be difficult, and compromises will be made on all sides....but hands up if you think any of the major EU members wish to loose trade with the EU? ...what hope is there for the EU when the Belgium Walloons can scupper years of talks....just before the signatures? Is this really an organisation we want to belong to? Just because the pound in you pocket is worth a little less at the moment?

It strikes me that the appropriate approach would be for the UK to be in EU discussions that concern the non-Brexit aspects of the EU, and should be left out of discussions that concern the EU response to Brexit. The current difficulties are due to the UK delaying it's formal declaration to leave.

I think we are in a period of off the cuff remarks and misreporting at present. Hopefully things will settle down once the UK fires the starting gun, whenever that will finally be.

_________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

Very good post Jimmy. Not only is the UK a fully paid up contributing member of the EU that
continues not just until the Article 50 Button is pressed, but as I understand it for 2 further
years (until end March 2019).
Meetings of the other 27 Member States but excluding the UK are therefore totally illegal
under the EU's own rules and anything agreed at them is not valid.
They act like chidren.
UK should press that Article 50 Button NOW and Mrs May write to Mt Junker on the
following lines:

Dear Mr Junker,
Please note that with immediate effect the UK is activating Article 50 of the EU Rules
and so is no longer a Member State. UK will be making no further financial contributions
to the EU or receiving back any payments.
We were hoping to have had positive negotiations with the EU regarding future trade
arrangements, but in view of the illegal meetings of the 27 Member States but excluding the UK
I regret to inform you this will no longer be possible.
Any trade conducted with the UK will be subject to WTO Tariff structure.
No EU National will be allowed to reside in the UK without the appropriate residence and work
permits which will only be granted in exceptional circumstances and for set periods; any such visas
can be revoked with no reasons given. EU Nationals visiting UK will be required to apply for
a Tourist Visa, Students for a Students Visa.
EU Nationals already resident in the UK are welcome to stay, provided UK Nationals residing
in EU Member States are also allowed to stay there with no hinderance,
Love Theresa.
XXX

Geoff.

LL
Good luck with the business. I fear difficult and uncertain times now, for many years to come.
SFD
That will depend on the attitude of the 28 countries involved ...

Your suggestion can work both ways.
One could just as easily say that it will depend upon the UK negotiators.

SFD
Some of those politicians, who are complaining & issuing threats, may not be in power for much longer.

Pure opinion.
Yes, the far right are gaining ground throughout Europe. Including England, Germany, Austria...
Some faces will change in time - like Cameron going. But I don't expect EU policy towards Brexit UK to change much. Why should it?

LL
Frankly, I don't think any of the English politicians had a plan for Brexit! One mega-mess.
SDF
Neither have the EU politicians. They did not expect the UK to vote for Brexit and have nothing in place to 'fill the gap' which will be left.

Why should the EU politicians have a plan?
It is not their problem. It is Britain's problem.
And with no plan, Britain suffers, the pound suffers from uncertainty. Business suffers from uncertainty. And which international company would want to locate in Britain now, given the complete uncertainty as to whether the UK will have "free market access" to the EU countries?
More chance of them relocating in the EU.
Bad for the UK. Good for the EU.

Some people think the pound is the only problem. But the fall in the pound is a reflection of all the other problems - especially if Britain decides to leave the free market.
This is only the start!
For the old fogies who can go back to Britain, and have their pension, I realise this is no real problem. It is simply a game for them. They are not really affected long-term.
But - for the young, it is a disaster - which is why they voted to remain in the EU.
Divided Britain, in more ways than one.

_________________
"You cannot talk sense to a fool" - Proverbs 23:9

For Lindalinda,
My 2 daughters work in financial services on good salaries, both are in their 30s. One earns
a 6 figure salary and spends half her time working in EU Member States. The other one gets
a slightly smaller salary.
Guess what! Both voted for Brexit.
Geoff.
One of your old fogies who also voted to leave.

No surprise, given their father's opinion.
But MOST of the young voted to remain. That is a fact.

_________________
"You cannot talk sense to a fool" - Proverbs 23:9

For example -

EU Referendum Results: Young ‘Screwed By Older Generations’ As Polls Suggest 75% Backed Remain
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/e ... 2d331dac8f?

_________________
"You cannot talk sense to a fool" - Proverbs 23:9

Linda, true, the majority of those under 24 voted to stay.....it is estimated that 36% of those 24 and under actually voted....the remaining 64% couldn't be bothered.....says a lot really

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu- ... 05396.html

"But I don't expect EU policy towards Brexit UK to change much. Why should it?"

Guess it depends which policy you're talking about. Is it a policy enshrined in EU law,agreed by all member states, as it should be. In which case where is it, how can we see it, are all member states and 'leaders' abiding by it, if not, why not? Or is it a 'policy' decided on, simply on the hoof by Juncker, Merkel, Hollande et al..........? In which case what is its legal status, which I guess is what the expats are saying to Juncker?

And the reason then that it should change is that it's totally illegal.

"Why should the EU politicians have a plan?
It is not their problem. It is Britain's problem. "

The EU politicians should have exit policies already enshrined in EU law which should state very clearly the procedures to be followed by both a member wishing to leave the Union, and the the Union itself. It's not a problem, just the legal requirements for any union. It's definitely not Britains problem, there should be exit procedures clearly enshrined in EU law for both parties to follow.

"And which international company would want to locate in Britain now, given the complete uncertainty as to whether the UK will have "free market access" to the EU countries?"

Maybe ask USA , Canada..................or any other country which has been trying for years to conclude trade agreements with a totally inflexible club called the EU.

Up till now lindalinda, for the young, Europe was previously their oyster, they had the ability to choose wherever they wished to study, work, live or start a business in 28 EU countries. That will be a lot less easy after Brexit is complete. The ramifications are being felt by universities in the UK already.

On another forum it was pointed out that Brits wishing to buy in Cyprus will in future have to apply to the Council of Ministers for permission in order to buy a property here, like it was done in pre-EU days. It could also be not as easy to gain or hold employment here...and may not be so easy to set up and own a business. On a personal note I have no concerns...but for newcomers we'll just have to see what transpires.

I have said before on many occasions that the UK has little or nothing to bargain with in the forthcoming negotiations. I believe the EU holds all the shots...and will unite to hold the union together. Like it or not - and despite internal squabbles - the EU is a family. If you attack the family, watch out! I have described the current phase as being the lull before the storm and I am not expecting Theresa May to have an easy ride.

I'm not too sure about applying to the Council of ministers to purchase a property here Lloyd. We bought here in 2003 well before Cyprus joined the EU but did not have to apply to the Council of Ministers so would like to know more details on this. I do remember then that a non cypriot could not run a business here - they could only have a partnership with a cypriot? I think I'm right in that?

Lloyd is correct. any none EU Citizen has to get permission from the Council of Ministers to either purchase a property or have their names included on Title Deeds.

Jim

Correct. I couldn't remember, but just checked my documents from when I purchased my property in 2003 and the letter is there from my lawyer confirming that the purchase had been approved by the Council of Ministers.

There was also the letter prior to this requesting my financial data fir them. No idea now what I supplied then, but it clearly needed substantial figures re my income and assets too.

You are correct re. business start-ups !
We, too. bought 'pre-EU' and would naturally expect approval to be required from a host country.
Some, who had no experience of the rules at that time, seem to think they know better than those who have actually encountered them.
Just the same as some who are fearful of the UK's exit from the EU. I voted 'No' to the Common Market (let alone the debacle it has morphed into). The protectionist ideas of different nations, who are stronger than some smaller members in the EU, has just shown their selfish, greedy attitude. I don't want to be associated with their 'club' !

I also bought in 2003 and did not need to make any application.

Have you checked what your Attorney did, on your behalf, to enable you to purchase your property ?
Did you have a meeting in Nicosia to establish your 'residency' ... or was it just for a 'holiday home', at the time of your purchase ?

No - I was not resident in 2003. Only been resident since June this year. But maybe my lawyer applied to the Council on my behalf - although I cannot
recall that ever being mentioned.

".............current phase as being the lull before the storm and I am not expecting Theresa May to have an easy ride."

For once I agree, which is why it's essential to have an army of EU savvy lawyers engaged. I'm pretty sure they will have! As in other posts of mine, I firmly believe that Juncker, Merkel etc are acting totally outwith the law, hence my support for the expats attempting to sue Juncker. He simply cannot keep making decisions off the top of his head, he must conform with the law, along with Merkel, Hollande etc etc who are also attempting to take the law into their own hands.They simply do not have the authority.

It's simply a joke that they are attempting to keep the UK out of their mates discussions, this has to be illegal, the U.K. is still a fully contributing member

The EU is a Union, not a monopoly and it's time Juncker, Merkel, Hollande etc etc came to terns with that reality.

When we bought in 2002, even without looking it up I remember having to apply to the Council of Ministers for permission to buy a house...and quite by chance the other day I came across paperwork to and from our lawyer, confirming permission had been applied for and was subsequently granted. Only when Cyprus joined the EU was this requirement waived.

I can assure you my children have their own strong opinions very often at variance with mine.
Most younger people of their age did not vote at all, too busy getting on with their lives!
Geoff.

It's simply a joke that they are attempting to keep the UK out of their mates discussions, this has to be illegal, the U.K. is still a fully contributing member

The EU is a Union, not a monopoly and it's time Juncker, Merkel, Hollande etc etc came to terns with that reality.

So the UK goes to all the meetings and there will therefore be no discussion on the EU's Brexit position. May finally invokes article 50 and the EU says "hold on ,you've been discussing your negotiating position for 9 months. We now need 9 months to discuss ours" That just leaves 15 months for real negotiations.

Exactly, and you would hope that the EU is now developing its own exit strategy to enable the UK to leave in a timely and orderly fashion. The lead EU negotiator has stated that the talks should be conducted in French....I am sorry but whilst not wishing to come across as a little Britisher..they really do need to get real, grow up and get down to the serious business of negotiation. I fully understand that the serious stuff will not start until the formal announcement but preliminary talks should have started weeks ago...I hope they have.

I don't care if negotiations are conducted in the Swahili language (There will have to be translations done for the 28 nations involved). Just get us OUT A.S.A.P. !

The problem is that they need us more than we need them!

Old Twister, you think?

Well, the banks are already voting with their feet. Goes back to the financial industry passporting rights which kato paphos talked about in another thread.

British banks preparing to leave UK over Brexit - Observer
Katy Brent-Stacey Reuters 23 October 2016

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's biggest banks are preparing to move out of the country in early 2017 because of fears over the impending Brexit negotiations, while smaller banks are making plans to leave before Christmas, the chief executive of the British Bankers' Association Anthony Browne said.

"The public and political debate at the moment is taking us in the wrong direction," the Observer Sunday newspaper quoted Browne as saying in an interview.

The paper released a short extract on Saturday evening but no further comments by Browne from the interview were immediately available.

Banks in Britain depend on a European "passport" to serve clients across the 28-country European Union from one base and lenders worry that this right will end after Britain leaves the EU.

Banks have already said they are making contingency plans to move some of their operations to continental Europe if Britain does not negotiate access to the EU single market after Brexit.

Ah ! The 'money men' !! ... who skew the figures to their own advantage (no matter which way the wind is blowing).
Yakflyer quotes of a 'smaller bank' .... been reading about a small Russian one.
Lots of threats .... Just as we had from the IMF, ECB, Osbourne, Carney .... "Immediate threats" .... What happened to those threats ?

We will have to wait and see !

“Most international banks now have project teams working out which operations they need to move to ensure they can continue serving customers, the date by which this must happen, and how best to do it.

“Their hands are quivering over the relocate button. Many smaller banks plan to start relocations before Christmas; bigger banks are expected to start in the first quarter of next year.”..
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -brexit-uk

Lets look on the bright side, as the Brexiteers are always telling us!!
1.
Maybe we can get them all to relocate in Paphos!! (although I don't know if I want to see Canary Wharf out of my window when I wake up in the morning ))
2.
It will create more space for offices and apartments in London.

_________________
"You cannot talk sense to a fool" - Proverbs 23:9

So what if the Banks leave the UK? What they are doing is trying to get the UK Govt to
pay their "Passport" fees to stay within the EU Market.
If they want that they should pay them themselves!
The UK Govt should not be blackmailed by these Shylocks; the Govt has a responsibility to
the British people and how they voted in the In/Out Referendum.
And while she is on Mrs M should tell Mrs S of Scotland to back off - no way should Scotland
have an equal say in Brexit.
Geoff.

on my way back from the UK recently, I sat next to a City Broker who was attending his brothers wedding. According to him his company was booming, along with most of the sq mile - some firms are doing very well. Much of his business is with South America.

Whilst I am sure some banks will be considering setting up branches in the eurozone, I could consider that simply prudent practice and sensible planning.

Digby

And while she is on Mrs M should tell Mrs S of Scotland to back off - no way should Scotland
have an equal say in Brexit

So Scotland has to shut up and do what England says in a union which is supposed to be a partnership of two equal partners.

Victor Meldrew couldn't have put it any better himself ))

_________________
"You cannot talk sense to a fool" - Proverbs 23:9

If the banks leave then so be it, all part and parcel of Britain leaving. Nobody said it would be easy or pretty. We have to accept the good with the bad, hard as that may be sometimes.

_________________
And the Oscar goes to........

Absolutely.
And while they are at it, those foreign car makers peddling their muck. They can pack up and go for sure.
And also those electronic companies using good ol' Britain as a base for producing the Chinese reproduction cr@p.
We don't need any of them. We want good ol' British stuff.


Cue music - "There'll always be an England"...

_________________
"You cannot talk sense to a fool" - Proverbs 23:9

They are two areas of land/nations ... out of four nations ... which make up the United Kingdom.
Each resident of the UK has equal value (not each area of land).
In a Democratic vote .... The majority takes precedence.
Hence, Brexit won !
Nicola should learn to understand the meaning of 'democracy' .... but, I fear, her education is sadly lacking.

Oh dear ! There's always one !

Even if they were equal partners, which they are not, Scotland voted to remain in the Union. The Union voted to leave the EU. It wasn't a party vote, or a constituency vote, or a regional vote. It was a national vote. As part of the union, Scotland should abide by the result, or do they only want democracy when they get the result they want?