Paphos People

Well, here's interesting....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36834743

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Busy exploring England's green & pleasant lands since May 2016 after 12yrs in Cyprus.
There appears to be a misapprehension I run a photography business... it's my passion as a hobby.
I sell and buy postage stamps!

The case is being brought by a British citizen, hair dresser named Dier Doss Santos
well let's all now waste a load more money in not accepting the majority win!
Let's just waste money till the losers get the answer what they want,
this has made my blood boil


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... article-50

You couldn,t write the script ...could you...
it is now becoming farcical and insulting to all who voted in the referendum

And who is going to foot this bill...why the great British tax payer yet again!
What an absolute outrage!

And where will this all end up going? Why to the European Court of Justice!

Our PM needs to evoke article 50 now and just get on with it, with such mad ideas around, before we waste any more money!

What is really sad is that deals are coming in from around the world, we have not gone into recession and we are open for business with Europe including the EU who need us more than we need them

A truly sad day in British Politics

Totally agree with what you say Migmogs but hey Deor will get his/her 5 mins.
As you say you couldn't make it up. Pathetic!

Obviously the people who voted to remain do not believe in democracy.
In the interest of not wasting any money all these attempts should be totally ignored.
To quote our new PM " Brexit means Brexit and there will be no second referendum".

apparently if the news/media is to be believed...lots of other Lawyers some from France representing ex pats! are now joining in with this farce

as you say......we have been told repeatedly that Brexit means Brexit

This lady PM should be saying that this lady is not for turning

and any MP worth his/her salt, should stand by the democratic vote to leave and stand by that in their own votes no matter how they voted originally, otherwise we have lost our democracy in total

because what then was the point of the vote in the first place!

I put up with all of the dreadful unneeded name calling, but this as left me fuming!

She may say it, but does Brexit really mean Brexit.... more to the point does she believe it

http://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-b ... red-2016-7

I know the bookies got the referendum wrong but will they be wrong this time ?

A referendum is only advisory so in theory the result can be ignored. As far as article 50 is concerned there is an interesting article here http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2 ... or-brexit/

Except, of course for when they return to the country in 2020, to campaign in a constituency where more people voted to leave than voted for the incumbent MP last time, when they find out exactly how 'advisory' it was.

I really don't get this. It seems to be predicated on a rump of the remain believing that parliament would vote against it if given the opportunity, and I just can't see that

Even if the courts decide it is unconstitutional not to put it to parliament [remembering that they didn't have to put it to parliament to join]
May would surely put a whip on, just to avoid annihilation in 2020, meaning any Labour / Lib dem in a seat between Watford and Carlisle would be risking dissent for no gain, just in case Corbyn hasn't succeeded in making the Labour Party completely politically irrelevant by then. The SNP would probably vote remain, but they are pretty irrelevant south of the border too.

Don't forget, more people voted to leave than voted conservative at the last election. I'm sure Ms May won't

Appears there is no need for the UK to invoke Article 50 to leave the EU, just repeal the European Communities Act 1997.

The European Communities Act 1997 was the instrument whereby the UK was able to join the European Union (then known as the European Economic Community). It enables, under section 2(2), UK government ministers to lay regulations before Parliament to transpose EU Directives and rulings of the European Court of Justice into UK law. It also provides, in section 2(4), that all UK legislation, including primary legislation (Acts of Parliament) have affect "subject to" directly applicable EU law. This has been interpreted by UK courts as granting EU law primacy over domestic UK legislation.

If this Act were to be repealed, any EU law (unless it has been transposed into British legislation) would, in practice, become unenforceable in the United Kingdom and Gibraltar, and the powers delegated by the Act to the EU institutions would return to the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
Under section 3 of the Law Commissions Act 1965, the Law Commission has a role in recommending the repeal of obsolete legislation to Parliament. This work is carried out by the Statute Law Repeals team whom propose candidates for repeal if they have clearly ceased to have any effect, break the law or are now spent or unnecessary.

It is suggested by the legal beagles that the 1997 Communities Act should never have been enacted in the first place as it is still an of fence under English law under the legal definition of Praemunire; "to subject Her Majesty’s Courts of law to the domination of a foreign court outside of Her Majesty’s control". It is also an offense under English law "to appeal to or obey a foreign court or authority, thus challenging the supremacy of the Crown". Surrender of English Sovereignty is an Act of Treason under the 1351 Treason Act and the 1559 Act of Supremacy and the 1688/9 Declaration and Bill of Rights.

So at least those living in England and Wales law can leave the EU almost immediately after the Queen repeals the Act, Scotland can then do what it likes if the people of Scotland will vote for independence.

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Clive of Payia

Correct, it would be political suicide!

Sorry Beverley, but I do believe it would have been better if you had written "obviously SOME of the people".

Clive, I really think you should get out more.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

Maybe that makes two of you Josef?
Look, this Court Challenge has absolutely no chance of success. It is being brought by those
who don't seem to want to accept a democratic vote by the British people. That is an insult to
the majority of us who voted Leave.
What they should be doing is saving their money (only the Legal Eagles will win as per usual)
and getting behind Brexit and ensuring UK's economic success in the future.
Watching some of them being interviewed on TV they seem to want the UK economy to fail,
they certainly seem to be talking it down.
Geoff.

I stand corrected," an awful lot of the people" would be better as" some of the people" implies just a few of the people and from what I have seen and heard and read, it is not just a few feel this way.

Thank you Beverley. It is just that although some of us "losers"/remainers have stated on here we have to get on with the situation as it is, there are continual postings having a go at us "losers", and it is becoming increasingly annoying, especially as we have conceded that a small majority was achieved by the "leavers".

A little bet on the side, Geoffreys.........These people will get legal aid so the tax payer will pay for this mockery of democracy. I hesitate to even think what a QC will charge. Plus, of course, all the costs involved with a Judge etc, all paid for by the tax payer.
I despair that the UK will ever leave the EU when judges allow this sort of challenge to take place.
Mrs May should invoke Article 50 this week and get the ball rolling.

If "Brexit means Brexit", why aren't they just getting on with it and invoking Article 50 - or perhaps there's more to this than meets the eye?

Why else are we waiting until the end of the year for the Brexiteers to do their stuff? All the Brexit voters thought they had all the aces up their sleeves, so what's the holdup here?

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Busy exploring England's green & pleasant lands since May 2016 after 12yrs in Cyprus.
There appears to be a misapprehension I run a photography business... it's my passion as a hobby.
I sell and buy postage stamps!

To me it is quite obvious what Mrs May is doing
She is wisely formulating a plan of action first, she is getting to know the other EU ministers and letting them get to know her
once she knows that her and her team have put together an action plan that will benefit the uk, then she will move forwards with it
Makes complete sense to me to get organized first
After all the ball is firmly in her court to do with as she pleases, so why rush without the fullest preparation
I think that she is being very wise about it all

Sensible summary of a cautious approach to negotiations.

What you're overlooking Julie is that Plan 'B' is only being put together right now. I understand 200 people are being hastily recruited, including high-flying experts in EU and UK law. Offices and administration also need to be set up. Theresa May would make the UK look even more foolish than it does now if it were to start spouting demands which are not feasable technically, or within the remit of UK and EU law and the agreements which the UK signed up to on entry.


Tonight on ITV News at Ten the reporter covering Theresa May's visit to France re-iterated what Francoise Hollande stated today...and what I have been saying for weeks. Namely that with the right to trade with the single European market comes the obligation to allow free movement of goods, services and people. You cannot have one without the other. It's one of the most basic tenets of the way the EU works. If this penny hasn't yet dropped with Theresa May and Brexiteers, it will once negotiations start in earnest. Brexiteers were sold this lie (that you can have your cake and eat it) just like they were sold the pup that Britain would save over £350 million a week by exiting the EU...and that all of this money could be channelled into the NHS.

Remember which comedians pedalled these untruths: Boris and Farage.

This is simply not true. ANYONE can trade with the EU. America trades with the EU. China trades with the EU.

What you are talking about is the type of tariff free trade deal, which Norway has. Britain is a much different proposition as a trading nation from a relative minnow like Norway.

There is no reason at all why Britain cannot negotiate a tariff free trade deal with Europe - after all that is what we were told we were voting for when Britain joined the EU. There is also no reason why such a deal would have to include freedom of movement of people.

The economy of Germany would collapse without trade with Britain, and it is not free to negotiate deals with the rest of the world, as would be a Britain outside the EU. Countries are already queuing to make trade deals with a liberated Britain. I suspect also that Prime Minister May would be a more formidable negotiator than Cameron, who signalled his intention to remain, no matter what, before entering the negotiations.

The reporter was merely stating France's initial negotiating position. In any case Hollande is unlikely to be president for much longer. He is deeply unpopular and Marine Le Pen is poised to not only replace him, but if she does so, has stated her intention for France to have a referendum on leaving the EU - supported by 62% of the population who want out of the EU.

There may not even be an EU by 2020.

There is quite a stench of hypocrisy emanating from this thread; it appears the lady is practising her DEMOCRATIC RIGHT to question certain aspects of the Referendum Result and is now being roundly condemned and vilified by those same people who reasoned they wanted to leave the EU to regain their democratic rights; strange logic.

Jim

Well put KG, I am sorry Lloyd but Mr Hollande would say that wouldn't he? He is desperate to keep the EU together and is fully aware now hat the UK has taken this monumetous leap that, yes partly into the dark, others will follow....there is huge risk but that is what we are risk takers, as the SAS motto quite nicely puts it "Who Dares Wins" and as a businessman yourself surely you can appreciate that sometimes, especially if your "business" is stagnating then you have to take that risk and move on. Hollandes days are numbered, his potential replacements are already stating the need for fair trade with the UK....Merkel realises that the German economy will be dealt a severe blow if trade with the UK is damaged...The UK public have taken a leap of faith...nothing to do with economics and everything to do with the heart...The PM is doing the sensible thing, she is assembling a team to make us forward...fairly, compromises will be made...on all sides...but I suspect the overriding reason why the vote was to leave....uncontrolled and unsustainable immigration into the UK will be a main pillar of any discussions as we go forward.

Good post...

The EUropeans keep on about free movement but I've never seen any justification for it...

It is rather like going into Papas for a pint of milk and being told you have to take a sack of potatoes too!

Personally, I cannot see why we cannot have free trade deals with the EU, to include services AND Free movement of Citizens from the EU into the UK and vice versa. What I feel should happen is that anyone moving from the EU to the UK and vice versa should expect no benefits unless they pay into the host country's system for an agreed number of years.
We have been here 12 years and can expect naff all from the Cyprus Social Services yet Cypriots can go into the UK and get all sorts of benefits, as can any EU Citizen.
So if this stopped and people entered only to work and pay into the system or have enough funds to enable them to live without being a burden on the state, what is the problem?

Yes, I've argued this before...

The problem is not free movement per se but the fact that it is incompatible with the UK's generous benefits system.

Under EU law you cannot discriminate against any EU citizen.

But yes, outside of the EU there is no reason why the UK couldn't allow free movement but have Cypriot style benefit restrictions.

Sssssh! Someone might hear you and act on such common sense. Mrs May hopefully!
Geoff.

Funny, I could have sworn the referendum was about immigration. At least I thought that is what the pro-brexit people on here said. I must have misunderstood as you seem in favour of it now. I do apologise.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

You did misunderstand...

You were probably deafened by all those remainers shouting 'wwaayyyysssiiissssttt' every time the subject was mentioned.

But the issue was not actually immigration but uncontrolled immigration...

OK?

What UK generous benefit system? Don't think many pensioners would agree with that.

UK State Pensions are NOT a benefit, they are a National Insurance "policy" pay out.
You pay in over many years, and when you retire draw the pension.
Triple lock has meant that us Pensioners have actually done better than most.
Geoff.

Agree JK, I'm scratching my head over the fact that Geoff thinks it's okay to repeal the hunting ban, brought back into the frame by a brexiter minister, and other high ranking conservatives but it's not okay to challenge the referendum result!

Sounds about right...the ducking and diving going on since June 24 has alarmed many who voted...

The campaign was fought in most UK newspapers on immigration, it headlined every debate...yet once the vote was taken...they all suddenly said differently...

An example...

On 7/7 a group of men launched a series of terror attacks on the UK capital. Of the four, three were British born, the fourth being Jamaican born. All four were British citizens, not one had entered the UK as a national of another EU nation and because they used home made explosives none of them had to cross an international border to commit their crime.

Their ethnicity or religion or motivation for their attacks are irrelevant in any discussion regarding Britains membership of EU.

Not would "taking back control of our borders" have had any impact on their ability to commit this crime.

But for some reason, there appear to be many on the Brexit side of the debate who have for some reason decided that leaving the EU is some way connected to Islam.

It is not. It never was, it could never be.

Most of Britains Muslims are of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin, and would not have entered the UK as nationals of another EU nations.

Rotherham, Lee Rigby, 7/7, Paris, Brussels airport or Nice have nothing to do with Brexit.

Had I read comment after comment before and after the referendum about people being angry at Romanian and Bulgarian gypsies or Poles or Czechs then I would sort of understand that - in context of Brexit debate.

But Bangladeshi and Pakistani or Muslims of other ethnic groups?

Not relevant. But it does highlight that fact that the Brexit debate was toxic.

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First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you...then you win.

Many from Eastern Europe do...

A friend works at a school in the UK with 80% immigrants... she is a 'helper' not a teacher - the helpers actually outnumber the teachers...

Apparently the Eastern European parents simply can't believe how they can get their kids educated for free AND fed while they are there!

You too failed to read (or chose to ignore) all references to uncontrolled immigration by the Brexit campaigners....

Well said Jim B. Some are seriously backtracking, but then we shouldn't mention that - or should we?

Where did you get the information about us getting "naff all"? Isn't it a FACT, that retired British people AND their spouse, even if the spouse is not of retirment age, get free healthcare, just as Cypriots do at the General Hospitals, or did you merely want to ignore that FACT?

Those that are below retirement age get "naff all"...

...and must prove they can support themselves and have private health cover...

...unless they are working and paying National Insurance of course...

EDITED: To add the apparently obligatory "FACT"

Quote
Where did you get the information about us getting "naff all"? Isn't it a FACT, that retired British people AND their spouse, even if the spouse is not of retirment age, get free healthcare, just as Cypriots do at the General Hospitals, or did you merely want to ignore that FACT?[/quote]

Retired Brits in Cyprus can apply for Healthcare and get care from the General Hospital, but then so can Cypriots residing in the UK. My wife is tax registered and I am her dependent and this is the only benefit we get, and we only get that because she pays Social security into the Cyprus coffers. We certainly would not get any form of rent allowance, food allowance, mobility allowance ad nauseum as those in the UK can claim, no matter how old we got or how long we had resided in Cyprus. That is the FACT.
Free movement of people is a requirement in the EU. Funny how no-one freely moves to oohh Bulgaria and claims benefits. It could continue as it has but without the benefits and see how it dries up naturally.

Retired Brits in Cyprus can apply for Healthcare and get care from the General Hospital, but then so can Cypriots residing in the UK. My wife is tax registered and I am her dependent and this is the only benefit we get, and we only get that because she pays Social security into the Cyprus coffers. We certainly would not get any form of rent allowance, food allowance, mobility allowance ad nauseum as those in the UK can claim, no matter how old we got or how long we had resided in Cyprus. That is the FACT.
Free movement of people is a requirement in the EU. Funny how no-one freely moves to oohh Bulgaria and claims benefits. It could continue as it has but without the benefits and see how it dries up naturally.[/quote]

So, not quite correct then, on your own admission now, that you get "naff all"?

The original poster has now admitted he or she does get free health care, so not correct when saying they got "naff all". No need to edit this as this is a FACT!!! Also, if that is such a big problem to some on here, why don't they go back to the UK now that they have succeeded in their vote for Brexit, instead of moaning about Cyprus?

Who was moaning about Cyprus...?

The OP was suggesting that benefits in the UK were more generous than those in Cyprus - he is correct. You know he is correct...

I am personally entitled to "naff all" in Cyprus. That would not be the same case for a Cypriot in my circumstances in the UK.

FACT.

I thought as residents of Cyprus, currently, you can opt to pay tax on income in Cyprus? Isn't that something Cyprus gives you?

As my OH earned when living in Cyprus and got paid in Cyprus and received nothing at all from the UK then I know a little about income tax...it's a much higher threshold in Cyprus before you start paying tax on your income ....he can use his paid Cyprus stamp to offset against his UK contributions...as we continued to pay UK NI when we lived in Cyprus..

Thats not naff all, it's quite good..isn't it...also no inheritance tax...although that's harder to prove if you still hold property, bank accounts, wills etc in the UK....

But you don't move to Cyprus because it's more expensive to live...do you? You move because it's supposedly cheaper. Immigrants come to the UK because it's a better life too...

A Cypriot moving to the UK permanently has all of the rights any EU citizen, in line with what locals have in the UK....it's a fact he earns more, pays more tax, higher NI, higher vat...and pays more for energy bills, according to what most expats say....so I'd say he's entitled to use the services that the UK has to offer...

As all the leading Brexit campaigners have since said, EU immigrants don't move to the UK for benefits...fact...

CG outasite mentioned Cyprus gives expats naff all, thats not true...remembering that the biggest tax expats pay in Cyprus is vat, so too do EU immigrants in the UK..

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First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you...then you win.

Sorry, some hair-splitting going on here by the remainers.

CGs comment that he is entitled to naff-all is virtually true, in comparison with what an immigrant, or a Cypriot of any age to the UK gets.

Firstly, the majority of expats here are retired. They rarely require housing. They rarely require working credits, they rarely require child benefits. They rarely require free schooling for children ( I do acknowledge that some do, mainly those with school age children, working all hours God sends to make ends meet, including a huge amount of extra curricular schooling which comes at an additional expense.) They sometimes require disability benefits - are they available here?? They may require carer assistance is that available here at no cost?? I'm pretty sure there are many other benefits of which I'm unaware that are available in the UK and not here.

So, to immigrants in the UK, what benefits do they get?? Housing, education for children, child benefits (including that for children in their homeland does Cyprus pay this???) disability allowances, carer allowances, working tax credits, free school meals.........oh and free medical care, just like pensioners in Cyprus. But what about working immigrants in Cyprus, do they get free medical care? Do they get child benefit, do they get working tax credits, do they get disability allowances, do they get sickness benefit, do they get carer allowances ????

And let's not forget that children's clothing in UK is vat free, not in Cyprus. And of course the WFA, oat able in UK but which was available in very few villages here this last winter.

So come on, let's start comparing apples with apples instead of oranges!!!

Oh and yes, I do get a higher tax allowance, but I pay a heck of a lot more for many things, like phone and Internet, like electricity, like heating and cooling, like many many foods, like clothes, like cars, like furniture................

Good post, George !
As Eric Morecambe used to say ...."Get out of that" !

Well said Lyn. The tax threshold here is much higher, and therefore much better than being taxed in the UK. But, there is an interesting point that comes out of that. How many British living here do NOT register as doing so, even though many of them have been here long term? Although legally they should register, many of them do not, because they keep popping back to the UK for hospital treatment. All very well that some posters have pointed out that immigrants to Britain get free treatment, but what about those already mentioned?

There are quite a few retired British people here in Cyprus who receive dialysis at the General Hospitals for free, and most need dialysis three times a week, at a cost of 400 euros per session, plus their many consultations they receive in order to maintain their stability of health. As for electricity, my last bill averaged out at 1 euro a day. Am I complaining? No, not with a washing machine, dishwasher, iron, immersion heater(no tank on complex roof), fans etc.,etc.

* STRAW MAN ALERT! *

The discussion is (as I'm sure you know) about the difference in the benefits between the UK and other EU countries...

...NOT about those that illegally access benefits.

Another 'straw man' argument....

What's the matter Cyprus Grump? Struck a chord somewhere, has it? Incidentally if you are talking about difference in benefits only, then IF you are registered here, then you enjoy paying less tax, as Lyn pointed out, which is a benefit, but then you state you personally get naff all. Why do you not receive better taxation by living here?

Are you sure that the hospital fees are not charged to the UK for pensioners' treatment ?
As for your electricity bill ?! I pay the bill for a property in Cyprus and for one in the UK, also. The Cypriot cost is a damned sight more expensive !
I presume that you only wear drip-dry, non-iron clothes where possible ... and 'eat out', using the heating, cooling and dishwashing facilities supplied by your local 'watering-hole' ?