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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:01 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:
To suggest that anyone on here who is annoyed or upset by the discontinuation of WFA
in Cyprus is a moaning Minnie is ridiculous. We are not all tarred with the same brush.
We love life, live it to the full, and will die happy in the sun.
The issue is one of fairness.
If they pay WFA, under certain criteria, to pensioners residing in the UK, then they should
pay WFA to pensioners living by choice in Cyprus who meet the same criteria.
Imagine the rumpus there would be if they said WFA will be now paid to all pensioners
living north of the Watford Gap, but to no pensioner living south of the Watford Gap.
Believe me with the present UK Government WFA is the thin edge of the wedge.
Pension payments might be next on their target list!
I gest not.
Geoff.


Well said Geoffreys :goodpost You are spot on with your posting.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:03 pm 
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The criteria for WFA has been set and the temperature test is based on the Average winter temperature in the warmest UK region.....the South West.....The average Winter Temperature in Cyprus is higher than that...it is a simple no brainer....we in Cyprus are not eligible..what about that can you not understand.....? No one has paid in some magic pot of gold reserved for your exclusive use....the people...in the UK working for a living are paying for your benefits, as you did when you were working...times change..priorities are reset and I am afraid those of us lucky to live in a country where the average temperature is streets ahead of that found in the UK are not high on the list of those priorities..and I think the majority of the voting public in the UK would agree with that....I made a decision to move here based on a number of factors...many of those factors have changed...including my future entitlement to Cypriot state health care, for which now I have to wait a lot longer for....


Last edited by Jimmy on Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:07 pm 
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In a recent clinical trial it was found that moaning is good for you . It keeps the brain cells active and could add years to your life . Wink wink .


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:44 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
The criteria for WFA has been set and the temperature test is based on the Average winter temperature in the warmest UK region.....the South West.....The average Winter Temperature in Cyprus is higher than that...it is a simple no brainer....we in Cyprus are not eligible..what about that can you not understand.....? No one has paid in some magic pot of gold reserved for your exclusive use....the people...in the UK working for a living are paying for your benefits, as you did when you were working...times change..priorities are reset and I am afraid those of us lucky to live in a country where the average temperature is streets ahead of that found in the UK are not high on the list of those priorities..and I think the majority of the voting public in the UK would agree with that....I made a decision to move here based on a number of factors...many of those factors have changed...including my future entitlement to Cypriot state health care, for which now I have to wait a lot longer for....



:goodpost

Succinctly put.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:51 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
The criteria for WFA has been set and the temperature test is based on the Average winter temperature in the warmest UK region.....the South West.....The average Winter Temperature in Cyprus is higher than that...it is a simple no brainer....we in Cyprus are not eligible..what about that can you not understand.....? No one has paid in some magic pot of gold reserved for your exclusive use....the people...in the UK working for a living are paying for your benefits, as you did when you were working...times change..priorities are reset and I am afraid those of us lucky to live in a country where the average temperature is streets ahead of that found in the UK are not high on the list of those priorities..and I think the majority of the voting public in the UK would agree with that....I made a decision to move here based on a number of factors...many of those factors have changed...including my future entitlement to Cypriot state health care, for which now I have to wait a lot longer for....

What I do not understand is that IF you live here why you don't put your location!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:09 pm 
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Happy now?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:40 pm 
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Just for Jimmy , the average temperatures . Surprise suprize you was correct , but not a lot in it for those overnight temps .


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:15 am 
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I find it quite strange how people justify the WFA for us here in Cyprus, and how, conversely, they don't.

We are all pensioners, we are all - currently at least - EU citizens, and as I understand, it are entitled to be treated equally. Quelle surprise.

The division has been harangued over long and hard until the powers that be found a - to them currently at least - solution which would enable them to remove this dastardly benefit from some of us, if not all. The basis for the decision was a simple temperature test in the south of England. No problem with that. But there are many extenuating circumstances outwith that decision which make it wholly wrong.

Such as, the likes of pensioner MPs continuing to receive this benefit, along with the likes of Alan Sugar, Richard Branson, countless other wealthy people etc etc..........none of whom clearly need this £250 per annum!

Such as many, many of us here in Cyprus living in homes built with absolutely no insulation whatsoever, rendering them not only ice boxes throughout the winter period, however long or short that may be, but totally covered in damp which generates mould, mould which is not only dangerous to health, but incredibly costly to remove, particularly for those of us no longer quite so nimble and active as we used to be! And before some smart xxxx jumps in and tells me I should have done my homework before I came here, believe me, I really thought I had.

So to those of you telling us that - for whatever reason you assume- we shouldn't be receiving this benefit, I suggest you think again. And for those of you - both presumptuously and patronisingly - actually telling us that we don't reallyneed it, then speaking for no one but myself, might I politely suggest that some of you come and walk in my shoes, when I can totally assure you that I can prove you very very wrong.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:04 am 
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George, before you claim to be hard done by losing the £100 per person winter fuel allowance, think of people in the UK like myself whom it costs more than £2000 a year to heat their homes during the colder months. In the UK I have my central heating on from September to April, ie 8 months of the year. Between November and February the heating is on more than 12 hours a day.

As for the people that you mention in your post, Richard Brandon, Lord Sugar etc. I guess they would be surprised that you claim they get £250 a year in WFA. Maybe they don't take it up or they give it to charity?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:40 am 
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Ok this is the way I see it! Years ago there were many televised problems about the pension being so low that many pensioners could not afford to heat their homes properly and were becoming ill or even dying of hypothermia so the Government in their wisdom decided that pensioners( many who had survived two wars and terrible deprivation ) could not be trusted to use a little more on their pensions wisely so it was given in this lump sum instead in the winter period but it was an increase on pensions so everyone was entitled to it.
Also when I lived in the UK and worked in the DWP there was an additional CWP ( Cold weather payment) which was available to pensioners and all recipients of appropriate benefits when a period of extreme cold was declared - I cannot remember how much it was and I don't know if this is still paid or not but that was a payment purely for UK residents dependant on the temperature which seems reasonable to me.
Here in Cyprus there is nothing any more as far as I am aware - not even for those residents living in the mountainous areas.

You cannot compare the costs of living in the UK against here in Cyprus - there are far too many factors to consider and that is not the point. The point is that the WFA is an extension of pension and as such should be payable to all persons in receipt of a UK pension.

There should be no argument about whinging, moaning etc etc or that this is minor compared to what the ladies born in 1953 etc have lost. It is a completely different situation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:40 am 
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Ok this is the way I see it! Years ago there were many televised problems about the pension being so low that many pensioners could not afford to heat their homes properly and were becoming ill or even dying of hypothermia so the Government in their wisdom decided that pensioners( many who had survived two wars and terrible deprivation ) could not be trusted to use a little more on their pensions wisely so it was given in this lump sum instead in the winter period but it was an increase on pensions so everyone was entitled to it.
Also when I lived in the UK and worked in the DWP there was an additional CWP ( Cold weather payment) which was available to pensioners and all recipients of appropriate benefits when a period of extreme cold was declared - I cannot remember how much it was and I don't know if this is still paid or not but that was a payment purely for UK residents dependant on the temperature which seems reasonable to me.
Here in Cyprus there is nothing any more as far as I am aware - not even for those residents living in the mountainous areas.

You cannot compare the costs of living in the UK against here in Cyprus - there are far too many factors to consider and that is not the point. The point is that the WFA is an extension of pension and as such should be payable to all persons in receipt of a UK pension.

There should be no argument about whinging, moaning etc etc or that this is minor compared to what the ladies born in 1953 etc have lost. It is a completely different situation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:51 am 
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kato paphos wrote:
George, before you claim to be hard done by losing the £100 per person winter fuel allowance, think of people in the UK like myself whom it costs more than £2000 a year to heat their homes during the colder months. In the UK I have my central heating on from September to April, ie 8 months of the year. Between November and February the heating is on more than 12 hours a day.

As for the people that you mention in your post, Richard Brandon, Lord Sugar etc. I guess they would be surprised that you claim they get £250 a year in WFA. Maybe they don't take it up or they give it to charity?


All I got was £200 a year.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:00 am 
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You know KP I'm pretty sure if I posted on here that the sky was blue or the sun was shining you'd find a reason to disagree with me. And as ever you're missing the point. You may well have huge heating bills, not my business, but you are still entitled to the WFA, I'm not. Likewise Lord Sugar et al, they may well give theirs to charity, again, not my business. The point is that they are still entitled to it, needfully or not, whilst I, needfully, am not.

My post was in response to people making bland assumptions that none of us can possibly need this piffling amount, I was simply pointing out that in fact some of us actually do.

Both the cost and effort of heating my home and refurbishing the damage done in the winter here is actually a considerable hardship for me, as opposed to 'being hard done by'

And yes, it is £200 not £250, a simple typo.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:42 am 
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I agree with Bossy Boots on this one - got it precisely correct! :agree


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:00 am 
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Quote:
yes more could and should be done on supporting the home base, but I for one am still am extreamly proud of what our country does for others...I too wish it was targeted better.


Good for you Jimmy!

However, have a word with your mates in government departments & get something done, instead of just being 'proud' of them wasting taxpayer funds.

Quote:
The point is that the WFA is an extension of pension and as such should be payable to all persons in receipt of a UK pension.


Nice one Bossy Boots - spot on!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Unfortunately Topgun I have no "friends" in Government, I just voted for them to do a better job than labour...which hey, in the main, are. Whilst I bow to your expertise BB, I think that WFA is also paid to others (non state pensioners) on selected other benefit schemes, and is also non taxable which actually puts it at odds with a "top up" for the state pension....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:22 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
Unfortunately Topgun I have no "friends" in Government, I just voted for them to do a better job than labour...which hey, in the main, are. Whilst I bow to your expertise BB, I think that WFA is also paid to others (non state pensioners) on selected other benefit schemes, and is also non taxable which actually puts it at odds with a "top up" for the state pension....


Correct. I believe it is paid also to those over 60 years old but not in receipt of a State Pension,
but out of work or cannot work.
Point is they have to apply it fairly, which they are not doing.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Yes Geoffrey, they apply for it under the criteria laid down.....which in my opinion anyway is fair.. :roll: there will always be winners and losers, the point being there is hopefully more winners than losers....that is the trouble with universal benefits they are clearly open to abuse...and no I do not agree with the uber rich getting this payment...nor do I agree with those over a certain income getting it either...but to manage this on an individual basis would not be viable....you would probably spend as much administering it !!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:15 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
Yes Geoffrey, they apply for it under the criteria laid down.....which in my opinion anyway is fair.. :roll: there will always be winners and losers, the point being there is hopefully more winners than losers....that is the trouble with universal benefits they are clearly open to abuse...and no I do not agree with the uber rich getting this payment...nor do I agree with those over a certain income getting it either...but to manage this on an individual basis would not be viable....you would probably spend as much administering it !!


Would you, then, apply that argument to the State Pension? Or to any other Benefit/s? After all if a millionaire has paid his/her/third gender's NI contributions all his/her'third gender's working life why should they not receive the State Pension? Or WFA? Or.....???
??
Geoff.


Last edited by geoffreys on Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:11 pm 
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George wrote:
I find it quite strange how people justify the WFA for us here in Cyprus, and how, conversely, they don't.

We are all pensioners, we are all - currently at least - EU citizens, and as I understand, it are entitled to be treated equally. Quelle surprise.

The division has been harangued over long and hard until the powers that be found a - to them currently at least - solution which would enable them to remove this dastardly benefit from some of us, if not all. The basis for the decision was a simple temperature test in the south of England. No problem with that. But there are many extenuating circumstances outwith that decision which make it wholly wrong.

Such as, the likes of pensioner MPs continuing to receive this benefit, along with the likes of Alan Sugar, Richard Branson, countless other wealthy people etc etc..........none of whom clearly need this £250 per annum!

Such as many, many of us here in Cyprus living in homes built with absolutely no insulation whatsoever, rendering them not only ice boxes throughout the winter period, however long or short that may be, but totally covered in damp which generates mould, mould which is not only dangerous to health, but incredibly costly to remove, particularly for those of us no longer quite so nimble and active as we used to be! And before some smart xxxx jumps in and tells me I should have done my homework before I came here, believe me, I really thought I had.

So to those of you telling us that - for whatever reason you assume- we shouldn't be receiving this benefit, I suggest you think again. And for those of you - both presumptuously and patronisingly - actually telling us that we don't reallyneed it, then speaking for no one but myself, might I politely suggest that some of you come and walk in my shoes, when I can totally assure you that I can prove you very very wrong.


:goodpost Spot on :clap


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:48 pm 
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As a loser how much Is/was the winter fuel allowance per person.
I can add that amount to the £20 thousand plus I will have lost in gov pension by 2017. The date I will now get mine, it was due in 2013.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:25 pm 
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flamingo wrote:
As a loser how much Is/was the winter fuel allowance per person.
I can add that amount to the £20 thousand plus I will have lost in gov pension by 2017. The date I will now get mine, it was due in 2013.


It is (was if you live in Cyprus!) £200.
That is £200 for a single pensioner, £200 for a pensioner couple (not £400!).
My wife, like you, has also lost out on her State Pension, she is 60 this year and
will now receive it in 2023. A loss of Approx £46K.
Robbing Bar Stewards.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:40 pm 
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Yes the amounts don't bare thinking about. And hubby worked mine out at an old pension rate, in 2005.
A well at least the sun is shining now.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:15 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:
flamingo wrote:
As a loser how much Is/was the winter fuel allowance per person.
I can add that amount to the £20 thousand plus I will have lost in gov pension by 2017. The date I will now get mine, it was due in 2013.


It is (was if you live in Cyprus!) £200.
That is £200 for a single pensioner, £200 for a pensioner couple (not £400!).
My wife, like you, has also lost out on her State Pension, she is 60 this year and
will now receive it in 2023. A loss of Approx £46K.
Robbing Bar Stewards.
Geoff.



Have you guys looked at the latest pension news on the website.
I was initially told (in 2012 when I retired from work) that I had to wait until I was 69 (2023) Now it's been revised to 2019 when I'm 65
Actual date 6th November 2019.


Pension dates here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... etable.pdf

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:23 pm 
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Had a pension statement from Gov pension department mid 2015, gave Nov 2017 for me, same date as it has since 30 Nov 2011.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:28 pm 
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flamingo wrote:
Had a pension statement from Gov pension department mid 2015, gave Nov 2017 for me, same date as it has since 30 Nov 2011.


Well how old will you be in 2017?
As I explained, my wife will now not get her pension until she is 67, in 2023. Again as per
pension forecast from DWP. Mind you, they keep moving the goal posts, but never to your advantage.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:36 pm 
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I will be 63 this year. I have a friend here a whole four months older than me and she gets her pension this year. Nearly a year and a half before me. That's how unfair things are at the moment. But as soon as the goal posts are moved its unfair to somebody.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:42 pm 
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This is the timetable of retirement dates. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... etable.pdf
Hope it opens okay.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:02 pm 
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Below is 'Copy & paste' of correspondence I have had with my UK area MP in the last 12 months,(Not laid out in correct order,sorry.)

Winter Fuel (non Payment) in Cyprus
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SHELBROOKE, Alec 06/01/2016

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your recent email.

As you are aware, reforms to the Winter Fuel Allowance mean that payments are made to British taxpayers to assist with energy payments in the colder months. As such the reforms put in place an eligibility criteria to ensure payments were made to those living in the UK or in EEA countries where the average temperature in winter is lower than the warmest region of the UK.

A quick check of weather history on Wunderground.com highlights, for example, that the lowest temperature on Christmas Day 2015 at the flowing locations was as follows:

Paphos Airport – 8 degrees
Larnaca Airport – 7 degrees
Leeds & Bradford Airport – 2 degrees

Obviously, the policy refers to an average over the winter months so it is expected that when final averages are calculated for this winter the average in Cyprus will remain higher than that in the United Kingdom.

Yours sincerely,

Alec


Alec Shelbrooke MP
Conservative Member of Parliament for Elmet & Rothwell

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London SW1A 0AA
Office 01937 589 002
Email alec.shelbrooke.mp@parliament.uk
Website http://www.alecshelbrooke.co.uk
Twitter: @AlecShelbrooke
Facebook: alecshelbrookemp

Please note that from time to time I would like to keep you up to date with issues and Parliamentary and constituency business through an e-newsletter. If you do not want to receive this then please reply to this with UNSUBSCRIBE





From: Malcolm
Sent: 01 January 2016 19:39
To: SHELBROOKE, Alec

Subject: Winter Fuel (non Payment) in Cyprus

Dear Sir,
It is almost 12 months since I sent you an e-mail (see below) regarding the non Payment of Winter fuel allowance for UK pensioners in Cyprus, below is a copy and paste from today's (1st January 2016) local english press here in Cyprus. This disproves that Cyprus is tropical !!!!

TOPUPDATED
Cyprus starts New Year white and cold
incyprusincyprus — 01/01/2016
Phil
Many parts of Cyprus were covered in white on New Year’s Day, a day with unusually low temperatures making Friday the coldest day of the week.
Plenty of snow accumulated up on the mountains but also in rural areas outside Nicosia.
Light snow found its way into the capital and other towns, painting a perfect picture for the season. People have been sharing photos taken from their windows on social media, capturing on camera the ever-so short-lived snowflakes.
Here are thee pictures submitted to Philenews by Frixos-Dalitis in Archangelos, Koulla-Kountouri in Astromeritis, and Roula Demetriou in Tmbria.
Frixos-Dalitis---Arhaggelos Koulla-Kountouri---Adtromeritis Roula-Demetriou--Tembria
But it was no picnic for those who braved the weather, including people with their pets, as there was a wind chill in effect that felt a lot colder when walking outside.
Temperatures reached 7 degrees inland, 10 degrees in the coastal areas, and -5 degrees in the mountains.
New Year Day’s overnight temperatures will drop down to 3 degrees inland, 5 degrees in the coastal areas, and -7 degrees in the mountains.
All roads leading to Troodos Mountain were closed as well as secondary roads in high elevation that were open only to vehicles with four-wheel drive or anti-skid crawlers.
In the evening, there is chance of isolated showers. Drivers should slow down when they see a paddle of water, even while driving in the city, because hydroplaning is possible even at relatively low speeds.
Warnings of sleet forming in many areas have not been lifted and could remain in effect throughout the weekend.
The latest information is available on the police website, through social media, and on Smartphone apps.



Dear Madam. Please convey the following message immediately to the Committee.

To members of the Select Committee for Work & Pensions

It is urged that a ‘prayer’ an EDM as follows is laid before parliament before the 24th January (40 days after the SI was laid)

Early Day Motion (prayer)

Winter Fuel Payment to British Citizens in EU countries.

The Statutory Instrument 2014 No. 3270 (laid before PARLIAMENT on the 15th December 2014 restricting payment to pensioners residing in countries incorrectly called by the DWP ‘hot’ of the EU should be annulled. After the General Election, the matter may then be appropriately reconsidered by the new Parliament.
1. It discriminates against certain groups of British Citizen pensioners residing in certain States of the EU, some of whom are already in financial difficulties.
2. This SI almost certainly contravenes the UK treaty agreement with the EU on social security co-ordination.
Kind Regards,





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malcolm shaw 01/01/2016 Unflag this message
To: SHELBROOKE, Alec Cc: Malcolm Shaw

Dear Sir,
It is almost 12 months since I sent you an e-mail (see below) regarding the non Payment of Winter fuel allowance for UK pensioners in Cyprus, below is a copy and paste from today's (1st January 2016) local english press here in Cyprus. This disproves that Cyprus is tropical !!!!

TOPUPDATED
Cyprus starts New Year white and cold
incyprus incyprus — 01/01/2016

Many parts of Cyprus were covered in white on New Year’s Day, a day with unusually low temperatures making Friday the coldest day of the week.

Plenty of snow accumulated up on the mountains but also in rural areas outside Nicosia.

Light snow found its way into the capital and other towns, painting a perfect picture for the season. People have been sharing photos taken from their windows on social media, capturing on camera the ever-so short-lived snowflakes.

Here are thee pictures submitted to Philenews by Frixos-Dalitis in Archangelos, Koulla-Kountouri in Astromeritis, and Roula Demetriou in Tmbria.

Frixos-Dalitis---Arhaggelos Koulla-Kountouri---Adtromeritis Roula-Demetriou--Tembria

But it was no picnic for those who braved the weather, including people with their pets, as there was a wind chill in effect that felt a lot colder when walking outside.

Temperatures reached 7 degrees inland, 10 degrees in the coastal areas, and -5 degrees in the mountains.

New Year Day’s overnight temperatures will drop down to 3 degrees inland, 5 degrees in the coastal areas, and -7 degrees in the mountains.

All roads leading to Troodos Mountain were closed as well as secondary roads in high elevation that were open only to vehicles with four-wheel drive or anti-skid crawlers.

In the evening, there is chance of isolated showers. Drivers should slow down when they see a paddle of water, even while driving in the city, because hydroplaning is possible even at relatively low speeds.

Warnings of sleet forming in many areas have not been lifted and could remain in effect throughout the weekend.

The latest information is available on the police website, through social media, and on Smartphone apps.




Dear Madam. Please convey the following message immediately to the Committee.

To members of the Select Committee for Work & Pensions

It is urged that a ‘prayer’ an EDM as follows is laid before parliament before the 24th January (40 days after the SI was laid)

Early Day Motion (prayer)

Winter Fuel Payment to British Citizens in EU countries.

The Statutory Instrument 2014 No. 3270 (laid before PARLIAMENT on the 15th December 2014 restricting payment to pensioners residing in countries incorrectly called by the DWP ‘hot’ of the EU should be annulled. After the General Election, the matter may then be appropriately reconsidered by the new Parliament.

1. It discriminates against certain groups of British Citizen pensioners residing in certain States of the EU, some of whom are already in financial difficulties.

2. This SI almost certainly contravenes the UK treaty agreement with the EU on social security co-ordination.

Kind Regards,

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:08 pm 
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I don't think your MP is really listening!
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:17 pm 
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geoffreys wrote:
I don't think your MP is really listening!
Geoff.


Hi Geoff, Well I 'tried' !!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:55 pm 
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It is interesting in the women's challenge on SPA they are using the fact that they were not informed of the changes , the government countered and said it was on TV in the press and letters were sent .

Can I just ask has any one here had a letter re WFA being stopped payment to us here in Cyprus ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:00 pm 
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Number6 wrote:
It is interesting in the women's challenge on SPA they are using the fact that they were not informed of the changes , the government countered and said it was on TV in the press and letters were sent .

Can I just ask has any one here had a letter re WFA being stopped payment to us here in Cyprus ?



I can't recall having any personal written information that the WFA would be discontinued.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:32 pm 
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"Can I just ask has any one here had a letter re WFA being stopped payment to us here in Cyprus ?"

No, but sorry, why would we? It was well publicised in the press, the media etc. As so many of us here on PP know.

As with many other matters which were widely discussed and, to quote - democratically debated in parliament.

One wonders just how much funding needs to be diverted to personally inform every single individual of such changes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:16 pm 
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So George you are saying the ladies need to just accept the change in spa and get on with it ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:37 pm 
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No, don't be silly, George is referring primarily to WFA and it would be impractical to individually inform every single person that would be effected..and the same applies to many changes...including the changes to SPA. That is why these issues are publicised in the press, media and Government websites. The issue with SPA is the short notice of that information going out which disadvantaged those close to their perceived retirement age....unable to make alternative plans....


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:59 pm 
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Without being silly, there is a way the UK pensions department could have notified us all that we were no longer getting WFA. They send a pension entitlement statement out each year to those who are receiving state pension. One sentence on that would have been at no additional cost. Doesn't take much intelligence for them to have done that, but then they don't think that way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:19 am 
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Good point, but that would still have taken additional resources and time to identify all those effected and amending the "Stock" letters, Let's face it...the WFA issue has been debated to death on various forums, the press and other media long before it was implemented, there is a degree of individual responsibility here to ensure you know what is going on...and with very few exceptions I think most knew this was happening and living in one of the effected countries your payment would stop....


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:26 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
No, don't be silly, George is referring primarily to WFA and it would be impractical to individually inform every single person that would be effected..and the same applies to many changes...including the changes to SPA. That is why these issues are publicised in the press, media and Government websites. The issue with SPA is the short notice of that information going out which disadvantaged those close to their perceived retirement age....unable to make alternative plans....


Do you even know what WASPI are asking for ?

What is our "ask"? WASPI are asking the Government to “Put all women born in the 1950's (on or after 6 April 1951) affected by the changes to the State Pension Age in exactly the same financial position they would have been in if they had been born on or before 5 April 1950”.

So the burden passes to the women born in the 1960s , .....look out for the next petition . :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:33 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
there is a degree of individual responsibility here to ensure you know what is going on...and with very few exceptions I think most knew this was happening and living in one of the effected countries your payment would stop....


So does the same not apply to spa ?

Look at this from the Independent in 1993 , if it was in one paper it would have been in them all .


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:10 am 
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The problem is that although the initial changes were announced in 1995, an announcement to,accelerate the process was made in 2011, which impacted on a significant number of women...it is the time between that announcement and the implementation that has caused the angst....I believe the changes are absolutely right, but the implementation for women is flawed and disadvantages a significant number of women....but at the end of the day the line had to be drawn somewhere....


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:44 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
The problem is that although the initial changes were announced in 1995, an announcement to,accelerate the process was made in 2011, which impacted on a significant number of women...it is the time between that announcement and the implementation that has caused the angst....I believe the changes are absolutely right, but the implementation for women is flawed and disadvantages a significant number of women....but at the end of the day the line had to be drawn somewhere....


Unfortunately they drew it in the wrong and unfair place. Now they should put this wrong right.
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:51 pm 
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Perhaps you could suggest where the line was drawn Geoff, because wherever they drew it people would be disadvantaged....My wife will now be 67 before wishes qualifies for her state Pension....I will be almost 67...are we happy of course not....the additional private health insurance we have to pay and of course the loss of almost 9 years pension rights is a blow....e people I really feel sorry for are the ladies within striking distance of their pension...but if you change the rules for them what about the knock on effect? Most of us a living longer..but with that comes a consequence and the rise in pension age is one of those consequences I am afraid.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:06 pm 
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The pensions act 1995 has been in print for over 20 , anyone could have looked at it and seen that women born in about 1954 would not been getting their pension until 65 .


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:37 pm 
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Number6 wrote:
The pensions act 1995 has been in print for over 20 , anyone could have looked at it and seen that women born in about 1954 would not been getting their pension until 65 .


erm! sorry Number 6

you are wrong
I was born in 1953, I realized that my pension age would change from age 60 to age 61 yrs old, and after checking myself online, I moved my life about to accommodate that fact.

Then 8 months before I was due to retire at age 61 yrs old, in fact I was waiting for my pension pack to be posted to me, I found out from this forum that my new retirement age had in fact been moved again, this time with no warning at all, So I rechecked online and I was to put it bluntly gobsmacked that my pension age had now been changed from age 61yrs old to the new revised age of 64yrs 6 months old

Many women born after me in 1953 /1954 have lost out even more than me, because the government brought this leap in time in, in huge steps monthly, so someone 4 months younger than me, found themselves now not retiring to age 65, those born 6 plus months younger than me , had an almighty shock when their retirement age was moved from age 61 to aged 66yrs old

If you read the reports and there now are many on this forum, and actually listen to the debates taking place from Ministers, you will understand in more detail exactly what has happened

What has been acknowledged by government and is now being fought by more and more leading MP's, is that women born in the 1950's where not given any adequate warning.

We also where never informed ever by letter of those changes either the first change or the second change and for lots who don't use the internet forums, some had no idea at all, about those changes

The vast majority of women born in the early 1950's have been deeply affected by what has happened

so no! the short answer is that we have NOT had 20 years to get organized at all, we where at no time TOLD about these changes by post and the 2011 changes where not told to any of us at all

On the WFA yes it does get cold here, these houses are concrete fridges and suffer from damp too, but for me I would rather have had my pension when I was told that I would have got it, and not had it moved without warning


Last edited by migmogs on Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:57 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
Perhaps you could suggest where the line was drawn Geoff, because wherever they drew it people would be disadvantaged....My wife will now be 67 before wishes qualifies for her state Pension....I will be almost 67...are we happy of course not....the additional private health insurance we have to pay and of course the loss of almost 9 years pension rights is a blow....e people I really feel sorry for are the ladies within striking distance of their pension...but if you change the rules for them what about the knock on effect? Most of us a living longer..but with that comes a consequence and the rise in pension age is one of those consequences I am afraid.


They originally "drew the line" on a sliding scale, so that in the end all would have their pensions
at age 65. It used to be 60 for women, so the longest anyone would have had their pension
delayed was 5 years, but usually no more than 4 years in practice depending on birth month.
That would have created equality between men and women - common retirement age of 65.
Then they delayed men as well, so more delay for women; some of both sexes have now lost out,
but women born in the 1950s most of all.
The Commons Select Committee on Pensions said yesterday (as reported on the Radio4 Money
Program this morning) that there was a problem, which needed to be addressed.
Damn*d right it does!
Geoff.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:37 pm 
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Migmog from the pension act 1995 your pension age was 64 and has been that for 20 years , although it has now been increased more thanks to the 2011 shambles . I do not know where you got the idea of 61 ? Even women born at the beginning of 1953 it was 62 .


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Last edited by Number6 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:58 pm 
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From my FB page 12 months to the day:-

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/01/11/briti ... allowance/

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:27 pm 
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Number6 wrote:
Migmog from the pension act 1995 your pension age was 64 and has been that for 20 years , although it has now been increased more thanks to the 2011 shambles . I do not know where you got the idea of 61 ? Even women born at the beginning of 1953 it was 62 .

Again you prove the shambles of what has happened to us women

And you again are wrong, I was born in Sept 1953' my original pension plan of age 60 was that I would retire in Sept 2013. The 1995 law changed this date to to April 2015, I would have been 61.5 yrs old

Then in the 2011 law of which I and other women where not aware of, or told about, my date of retirement was then changed to April 2018 64.5 years old

for you to get t this wrong as well, and you are now looking at reports! how where we women supposed to understand and prepare for this move in our pensions? When there was no news out there or letters to warn us

You need to look up the 2 laws as you have got them confused, I and other women of my year where never told in 1995 that we would reach pension agent at age 64, in fact women born in Dec 1953 will have to work till 65 yrs old, not even your 64 quoted


We were not told at all about the 2011 law, which is why now there is a huge debate taking place in the government

Again though there is another thread covering this issue, so I will not be replying again on this issue, this post is about the winter fuel allowance, and yes I don,t get that as I am now not old enough, even if I was to be living in the uk


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:43 pm 
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I have provided the extract from the 1995 act which clearly shows your retirement year as 2017 , if you can provide proof that it was different then I will stand corrected .

No need to throw in other stuff to cloud the issue , are you a politician ? ;)


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