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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:08 pm 
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Turkish warplanes have reportedly shot down a Russian military aircraft on the border with Syria.
Russia's Interfax news agency cited the Russian defence ministry as saying that a Su-24 had crashed in northern Syria, and that its two pilots had ejected.
Turkish military officials said Turkish F-16s shot down the plane after warning its pilots that they were violating Turkish airspace.
Video footage showed the plane crashing into mountains in Latakia province.
Russian launched an air campaign to bolster Syrian President Bashar al-Assad against rebels in late September.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:49 pm 
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oh dear
not what we living here so close to the war zones needed


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:32 pm 
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https://www.rt.com/news/323215-warplane ... ia-turkey/


So far Russia is awaiting further investigation


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:50 pm 
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This was almost bound to happen. There are so many countries with issues with each other at large. If Turkey think there will not be repercussions from Russia, then they are deluded.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:02 pm 
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I confess I'm a little confused by the Turkish Action.

Every raid they make against the pro-Assad forces [which of course the Russians support, as Assad is still the official government of Syria] and more importantly their adventures against the Kurds are technically speaking invasions of Syrian airspace, and invite Syrian interception, or of course interception by forces acting in support of the Government.

So haven't the Turks just

a) Invited Russia to shoot down any Turkish warplanes in Syrian Airspace, a task for which I suspect they won't use the same 40 year old technology they have been using against the Jihadis

b) Pushed a previously uninterested Russia straight into a support for the Kurds.

Tears before bedtime, I'd say


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:16 pm 
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RT Just posted YouTube video of their reporters being taken out by Turkish Artillery on the Syrian side of the border

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SLJcwZCiMY

Looks like Turkey has decided to go 'all-in', and the Russians are going to make sure it all gets played out on YouTube


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:54 pm 
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So, "Pandora box" has been open... we are waiting the repercussions :(


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Sergio wrote:
So, "Pandora box" has been open... we are waiting the repercussions :(


Hardly likely to be any repercussions from the Russians, as we are not exactly friendly with the Turks, or did you mean
something else?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:15 pm 
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So now the two Russian Pilots who appeared to have successfully ejected have now been found dead in the hands of the Turkish backed rebels they were bombing, who are claiming they were dead when they found them. I expect the Russians may be quite sceptical.

In the meantime, a Turkish official has claimed that their action was not against a particular country, which I assume is Turkish for "Oh b*****, what have we just done?"

I presume the Turkish Ambassador to Moscow has put in a bulk order for underpants, as Putin is now demanding an emergency UNSC meeting, and Turkey would quite like to convene an emergency NATO meeting, if that's OK with you guys


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:21 pm 
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That would probably mean we, as a NATO member have to take sides with Turkey. What a shambles.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:23 pm 
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Wavy Dave wrote:
Sergio wrote:
So, "Pandora box" has been open... we are waiting the repercussions :(


Hardly likely to be any repercussions from the Russians, as we are not exactly friendly with the Turks, or did you mean
something else?

I don't know exactly, but it would happen for sure. Bad day today.

PS. My question is WHY? Why Turkey did shoot russian bomber ? Are they decide to open own war ?
They could make other warning to Putin ...

Did the bomber drop a bomb to turkish territory ?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Sergio wrote:
PS. My question is WHY? Why Turkey did shoot russian bomber ?

According to the BBC News website the plane encroached on Turkish airspace and was warned 10 times over the course of 5 minutes and did not respond.

It is the first time that a NATO country has shot down a Russian aircraft since the 1950s!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:02 pm 
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Band wrote:
Sergio wrote:
PS. My question is WHY? Why Turkey did shoot russian bomber ?

According to the BBC News website the plane encroached on Turkish airspace and was warned 10 times over the course of 5 minutes and did not respond.

It is the first time that a NATO country has shot down a Russian aircraft since the 1950s!

The news ....

Now lets count the 5 min in turkish airspace to km, ~1000km/h x 5/60 h = 80+ km ... by other reports, the bomber cross 5km of turkish territory and spent 10-15 sec and it been shot in air of Syria.

PS. There was no threat to Turkey by the bomber.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:10 pm 
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As far as I can gather from the available information the Russian Bomber was lining up for a second bombing run on Anti-Assad Turkmen rebel positions which flightpath took it over a Turkish salient, and it was shot down during that second pass [Russian track is red, interceptor blue] where even if the launch was made in Turkish Airspace, it was certainly downed over Syria, presumably at the request of the rebels, who have been taking somewhat of a beating recently

Attachment:
turk intercept.png


Might make for an interesting NATO meeting this evening though

Turkey: It made an incursion into our airspace so we shot it down
Greece: So next time we get one of the twice weekly Turkish incursions into our airspace, we should shoot that down too?
Other Members: Embarrassed silence


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:22 pm 
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And now it appears the FSA are claiming that, after the Russian pilots had safely ejected, they were machine-gunned on the way down, and so they were technically correct when they previously reported the airmen were 'dead before they hit the ground'


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:23 pm 
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Seems to me it was planned that way ... the spot was selected very precisely and it was a hunt for slight error and very short crossing the salient. They knew russian pilot would make that mistake ...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Now we will wait new tragic from newly opened Pandora box: https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/ - russian mirrored Erdogan's recent warning - we'll shot down any object what will cross border going south ...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:16 am 
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Turkey is a big holiday destination for Russians, watch out Cyprus, it be could be your gain for the loss of those two poor airmen!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:39 am 
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Please don't hate/block/ban me as I don't wish to trivialise the terrible things going on in the world at the moment but.....
am I the only one to think of these images when I saw the title?
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:20 am 
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What Turkey has done is sheer stupidity...two countries, Russia and Turkey both led by ego maniacs...but Turkey is a NATO country and NATO is duty bound to support it....the ball is in Putins court, this could escalate very quickly to war....less talk about "extra" tourists and frivolous cartoons please.....this could turn into the Cuba of our time. This is about as close to war as you get...and I for one am praying that this does not spiral out of control.


Last edited by Jimmy on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:33 am 
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Who did that in Turkey, that's the question also. There are a lot of different parties: military what Erdogan trying to keep under pressure, himself, other politicians on top of the control...
Anyway, they must be get a permission from NATO _before_ the strike, not after. Playing own game in the region ... like they done before, it is bring a lot power to an edge of wide confrontation by reckless action of regional politics ! Just telling how unprofessional these people who are ruling the country.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:35 am 
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1 Airman has been found alive by syrian soldiers , thats good news ,
at least we can get a true version of what happened ..

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:43 am 
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Hopefully Finding the crewman will ease some of the tension, although I have no doubt they did in fact violate Turkish airspace, the Turkish reaction was stupid. I am all for action against this ISIS evil but it must be coordinated and the "Big Boys" need to stop posturing and for all our sakes get around a table and sort this mess out now..


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Seems to me Turkey didn't pass a test of real actions as full fledged member of NATO. They should be just a base for NATO forces and controlled by experienced and responsible officers. Like UK in Cyprus.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:26 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
Hopefully Finding the crewman will ease some of the tension, although I have no doubt they did in fact violate Turkish airspace, the Turkish reaction was stupid. I am all for action against this ISIS evil but it must be coordinated and the "Big Boys" need to stop posturing and for all our sakes get around a table and sort this mess out now..

Each side demonstrated own maps showing opposite "truth" about crossing or not the border, which could be easy altered - I've no trust on both pictures.
We need to see independence radar's recordings, preferably from satellites.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:46 pm 
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"We" don't need to see anything...Putin has a choice, resolve this militarily or by talking....hopefully it will be the later. Surveillance technology is wonderful...but it has to be in the right place at the right time, I suspect any "evidence" will be kept extremely "tight hold", Turkey has dragged NATO into this...the stakes have just gone through the roof.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:58 pm 
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The "pandora box" continue bringing to us another possible "mis-shooting" error - russian Triumph S-400 will cover 260km radius of airspace from Hmeimi airport ... that will bring us close to a war :(
https://www.rt.com/news/323379-s400-russia-syria-airbase/
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/25/middleeast/syria-turkey-russia-warplane-shot-down/


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:06 pm 
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Jimmy wrote:
"We" don't need to see anything...Putin has a choice, resolve this militarily or by talking....hopefully it will be the later. Surveillance technology is wonderful...but it has to be in the right place at the right time, I suspect any "evidence" will be kept extremely "tight hold", Turkey has dragged NATO into this...the stakes have just gone through the roof.


It looks like Putin might goes for the latter option, there appears to be news 'leaking' that Putin is suggesting that the best way to patch things up would be for Russia and the NATO members to mount a concerted attack against ISIL.

So it looks like his revenge on the Turks is going to be forcing them to either abandon their policy of supporting ISIL to eradicate the Kurds, or come clean and split them from their NATO allies.

Putin might be a narcissistic megalomaniac but he is also nobodies fool, as I suspect the Turks are just about to find out. Because if NATO and the Russians do castrate ISIL, as they do all *claim* to want Erdogan is going to find 2/3rds of his southern border packed will a whole load of well armed motivated and angry Kurds with no natural enemies to their south, and Russia disinclined to do anything about it as Assad appears to have pretty much given in on the East.

In the meantime it appears Turks fellow NATO members, the Greeks, have been expressing their solidarity to Lavrov, and asking him if he would find their records on the 1500 Turkish incursions into Greek airspace last year. Too good an opportunity to miss, I guess :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:21 pm 
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Please don't hate/block/ban me as I don't wish to trivialise the terrible things going on in the world at the moment but.....
am I the only one to think of these images when I saw the title?

This was my first thought on seeing the headline. Maybe the turkeys are preparing to fight back this Christmas.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:28 pm 
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Not wishing to trivialise the current thread but saw a great caption

A Solemn looking Putin with the Caption "Think I Will Have Turkey This Christmas" - Lets Hope not


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:54 pm 
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ooops!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:07 pm 
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I wonder if the sales of stuffing have gone up in Russia!
Turkey anyone.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Neil wrote:
1 Airman has been found alive by syrian soldiers , thats good news ,
at least we can get a true version of what happened ..



The russian airman says they were not given any warnings by the Turkish
and the plane was in Syrian air space when it was shot down ,,,

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:45 pm 
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Neil, I wouldn't expect anything else from turks and russians what they already said ... both sides will bring arguments in own favor in such cases.
If we could got tracks of the jets from independent sources (multiple)...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:07 pm 
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http://themindunleashed.org/2015/11/turkish-forces-take-down-russian-jet-is-this-the-official-start-to-wwiii.html

Maybe people should now start looking outside the box and with their own voices.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:34 pm 
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tanny wrote:
http://themindunleashed.org/2015/11/turkish-forces-take-down-russian-jet-is-this-the-official-start-to-wwiii.html

Maybe people should now start looking outside the box and with their own voices.

As the author,Phillip, said
Quote:
Please note: As a collective, we have the power to say NO. We can say NO to participating in WWIII. We can say NO to the banking cartel. We can also say NO to continuing to give up our power to the shadow global tyrants. And that’s exactly what we should do.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:18 pm 
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In my own mind I've questioned whether the Russian pilot was given the (not one but ten) warnings that Turkey claims it gave. Particularly as the pilot would have flown through the thin slither of airspace being disputed in no time at all. What language did the Turks use? English is the universal language in civil aviation, but I don't know about the military.

Today I read that Turkey claims the plane was shot down in error and that they did not know it was a Russian plane. Turkey appears to be back-tracking pretty quickly on all it's postions; probably realising that it has shot itself in the foot as well as the Russian plane.

Quite rightly the Russians have reportedly pulled 4m holidays from Turkey next year.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Looks like the Russians will be holidaying in the Crimea rather than Sharm or Turkey.
The list of places they can/will go is getting a lot shorter.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:36 pm 
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Yakflyer wrote:
In my own mind I've questioned whether the Russian pilot was given the (not one but ten) warnings that Turkey claims it gave. Particularly as the pilot would have flown through the thin slither of airspace being disputed in no time at all. What language did the Turks use? English is the universal language in civil aviation, but I don't know about the military.

Today I read that Turkey claims the plane was shot down in error and that they did not know it was a Russian plane. Turkey appears to be back-tracking pretty quickly on all it's postions; probably realising that it has shot itself in the foot as well as the Russian plane.

Quite rightly the Russians have reportedly pulled 4m holidays from Turkey next year.

German intel brought the number to 17 seconds of the warplane being in turkish airspace, now lets count the real number of warnings. How long is the turk dispatcher (not a pilot!) pronunciated one on a tape presented from them?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:39 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Looks like the Russians will be holidaying in the Crimea rather than Sharm or Turkey. The list of places they can/will go is getting a lot shorter.

I suspect many of them will come to Cyprus. And why not?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:40 pm 
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Latest news: 5 seconds to a target, the S-400 is ready. Erdogan claimed same action will be taken again, so we must expect new incidents soon.... Oh man !


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:34 am 
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Cameron has laid out his intent to join with the bombing of daesh in Syria, and received perceptible parliamentary support, whilst not yet voted on. In the meantime, Labour's leader, Corbyn, has reiterated his personal conviction for non intervention actions.

Why??? Why does the Labour Party - or any other party for that matter - assume that the views of the leader of the party are either (a) correct - hmmm , that's a diffucult one - or (b) the only option in the table?? Leadership should be by consensus, not the personal convictions of an opinionated leader.

Britain simply cannot stand by whilst others in Europe continually use their forces in an attempt to defeat daesh.

And as an aside, just what effect on Corbyns judgement does the dinosaur Livingstone have??
Quite a lot if the news is to be believed. Just watching Question Time, and who is on after all these 'well deserved' years in the wilderness??? Livingstone.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:24 am 
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One can only assume then that Corbyn would happily allow Da'esh to take over Europe and the UK. Incomprehensible. Does he really believe you can negotiate a settlement with Da'esh?

Presumably, he would not have stood up to Hitler had he been around in the late 1930's.

Corbyn's incompetence in military matters is on a par with Christophias' in finance.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:43 am 
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If we are to bomb Syria, there should be an open and workable coalition with Russia. This is not the time for the US to spit its dummy out and refuse to share info, because if there is another 'incident', it will be a mistake that we can't pull back from.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:22 am 
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This ship, or its sister ship,was docked in Limassol this time last week, spotted it when we came back from our cruise,

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russia ... sCatID=352


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:30 am 
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Any picture of that ship to share with us ?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:27 am 
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RFS MOSKVA 121 was in Limassol port a few years ago too.

Some photos we managed to grab from the perimeter fence (20 January 2013):

Image

Image

Another fairly regular visitor is a Russian destroyer, the Admiral Panteleyev:

Image

Wouldn't fancy flying in this though!
Image

More Russian ships:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cypruspic ... 2564106827

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:55 am 
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Many other countries have stood back in the past and left the UK to get on with it. The UK is doing its bit in Iraq and Afghanistan and also flying Drone Missions in Syria so why the big push to get the RAF to start bombing in Syria as well. Innocent people get killed when bombs are dropped, a precision bomb can’t differentiate between the bad guys and the good guys and more than likely the Da’esh will be hiding underground (as shown in the news) while the poor innocents will be the ones getting killed. This doesn’t appear to bother many posters as long as it’s not them, their children or Grandchildren on the receiving end.

No, I don’t know what the answer is but I do know it’s not indiscriminate carpet bombing like the Russians are presently carrying out. All this is doing is creating another generation of Terrorists and Suicide Bombers.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:12 pm 
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I would shift from descriptive method of war tactics to simple question (by civilians) - what is the bombing destroyed ?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:16 pm 
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Sergio wrote:
I would shift from descriptive method of war tactics to simple question (by civilians) - what is the bombing destroyed ?


Right; I'll bear that in mind.

Jim


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