Most 4th and 5th generation western fast jets have them; as regards Russian fast jets I would think they would have it fitted on the later generations, but not on the one that was shot down!
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| Black box recorders. https://www.paphospeople.com/ppforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30360 |
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| Author: | George [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Black box recorders. |
Yes, I know they're orange! But are they compulsory on all aircraft? Have looked on wiki, but quite a lot of detail there and can't find a definitive answer. Not that important but was just watching/listening to the various versions of what actually happened in the shooting down of the Russian fighter plane and thought the black boxes would show the exact situation. Or am I being naive? |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Civilian aircraft starting at certain level has the recorders as mandatory functionality; military jets ? It's classified, I'm not aware of such requirement. |
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| Author: | Stevie B [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Most 4th and 5th generation western fast jets have them; as regards Russian fast jets I would think they would have it fitted on the later generations, but not on the one that was shot down!
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| Author: | geoffreys [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Stevie B wrote: Most 4th and 5th generation western fast jets have them; as regards Russian fast jets I would think they would have it fitted! Indeed most have. Which may be one reason for the Russians waiting for the outcome of a FULL investigation by BOTH sides, before deciding what action to take as a result. Geoff. |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Stevie B wrote: Most 4th and 5th generation western fast jets have them; as regards Russian fast jets I would think they would have it fitted on the later generations, but not on the one that was shot down! Citation please. |
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| Author: | Jimmy [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
I doubt very much if Russia will be hanging around for a full investigation based on the Black Box recording...retrieving said Black Box could prove difficult...I doubt if an investigation team will deployed any time soon.... |
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| Author: | geoffreys [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio wrote: Stevie B wrote: Most 4th and 5th generation western fast jets have them; as regards Russian fast jets I would think they would have it fitted on the later generations, but not on the one that was shot down! Citation please. The Jane's website is a good start, Jane's of course made its name with its publication The Worlds Fighting Ships; been on the go for decades: www.janes.com Geoff |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
geoffreys wrote: The Jane's website is a good start, Jane's of course made its name with its publication The Worlds Fighting Ships; been on the go for decades: http://www.janes.com Geoff Get nothing there by searching "flight recorder military" keywords. Sorry, but actually "citation" request means direct URL, not the kind of reference. |
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| Author: | Stevie B [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Citation: Me, only stopped working on fast jets 3 years ago, also Wikapedia for the SU 24 history and it shows the crash record and states suspect in some of the crashes which means no concrete evidence, in other words no accident data recorder evidence!
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Stevie B wrote: Citation: Me, only stopped working on fast jets 3 years ago, also Wikapedia for the SU 24 history and it shows the crash record and states suspect in some of the crashes which means no concrete evidence, in other words no accident data recorder evidence! I'm not interesting in second part of you original post; thought you would support first phrase by citation(s). |
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| Author: | Stevie B [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
I THINK OVER 40 YEARS EXPIERENCE IN AVIATION AVIONICS IS A FAIRLY GOOD CITATION! For the other citation look at this link and on this is another link to a maker of black boxes and it shows pretty pictures and gives a list of what they fit them to including the Space Shuttle! http://aviation.stackexchange.com/quest ... lack-boxes |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Stevie B wrote: I THINK OVER 40 YEARS EXPIERENCE IN AVIATION AVIONICS IS A FAIRLY GOOD CITATION! For the other citation look at this link and on this is anoher link to a maker of black boxes and it gives a list of what they fit them to! http://aviation.stackexchange.com/quest ... lack-boxes Calm down... It's just flight recorders. I don't have such long experience, just I've been there serving Nagra recorders using metal wire, but it was long time ago... |
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| Author: | Stevie B [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sorry Sergio just thought I needed to shout so you could understand me; it is a very British no sorry English trait! Yes Sergio I used to work on the wire recorders and could not believe that you repaired the steel wire by tying the broken ends together in a reef knot!
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
the wires wasn't my cup of tea ... honestly, I don't remember what we did, perhaps just replaced the reel |
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| Author: | Wavy Dave [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio, why on earth do you continually demand URL evidence on every subject on every thread you post on. It becomes blooming boring to keep reading the same old thing. Give it a rest for goodness sake. |
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| Author: | shania [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Wavy Dave wrote: Sergio, why on earth do you continually demand URL evidence on every subject on every thread you post on. It becomes blooming boring to keep reading the same old thing. Give it a rest for goodness sake. Hear Hear. 
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Wavy Dave wrote: Sergio, why on earth do you continually demand URL evidence on every subject on every thread you post on. It becomes blooming boring to keep reading the same old thing. Give it a rest for goodness sake. Why YOU are trolling here, for god sake?! |
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| Author: | Yakflyer [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
If anyone's the troll here, it's not Wavy Dave, who posts in a very balanced manner. |
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| Author: | Pathfinder [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sorry but have to agree with WD and Yak Sergio, some of the nonsense you come out with on this forum is utter tripe and where is your citation (as you put it) on every topic you comment on. You made out you was a specialist with Nagra Systems when it came to the thread regarding the downed Metrojet but when someone else who appears to know abut those systems as well (Stevie B) you conveniently forget how you used to repair them. Sorry but you lay yourself wide open to criticism when you come out with the nonsense you do and then suggest others are trolling, everyone on this forum has lifetime experiences in their chosen trades and sometime multiple trades so it stands to reason that just perhaps somebody does know what they are talking about and don't need to validate it by quoting chapter and verse from a news archive or Wikipedia which is what you seems to do. |
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| Author: | Wavy Dave [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Yakflyer wrote: If anyone's the troll here, it's not Wavy Dave, who posts in a very balanced manner. Thank you Lloyd. Also Shania and Pathfinder. 
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Yakflyer wrote: If anyone's the troll here, it's not Wavy Dave, who posts in a very balanced manner. I don't see any post on topic from him here. Some members amusing me in pursuing a role of site's cop without merits... He did post offtopic, diverting the thread to personal war - Instead of educate such member good manners (stay on topic, discuss the theme not a person, etc). It would be nice to stop bickering and posting offtopic. Want to say personal - send PM ! |
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| Author: | Wavy Dave [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio wrote: Yakflyer wrote: If anyone's the troll here, it's not Wavy Dave, who posts in a very balanced manner. I don't see any post on topic from him here. Some members amusing me in pursuing a role of site's cop without merits... He did post offtopic, diverting the thread to personal war - Instead of educate such member good manners (stay on topic, discuss the theme not a person, etc). It would be nice to stop bickering and posting offtopic. Want to say personal - send PM ! You are correct Sergio that I have not posted re Black Box Recorders, because I have no knowledge of their workings, and therefore would be impudent of me to make out I did. However, like others, I do READ various threads that are of interest to me and I was interested in Stevie B's postings containing facts, but I personally get fed up with reading your requiring proof of this and that, when it is fairly obvious the person has considerable knowledge of what is being discussed. It is not a personal war, but just simply trying to convince you that people do read as well as, or instead of posting on a subject, but would prefer it if they didn't have to constantly justify their explanation, thereby having to give "proof" of what they are discussing. |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Should be enough for now. Derailing the thread is not appropriate behavior anyway. If you don't like something, you always have a choice not to read, or send PM to clarify your position, or open you own thread to vent there. And again the behavior to discuss a person instead of a topic is against site's rules. |
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| Author: | Wavy Dave [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Stevie B wrote: I THINK OVER 40 YEARS EXPIERENCE IN AVIATION AVIONICS IS A FAIRLY GOOD CITATION! For the other citation look at this link and on this is another link to a maker of black boxes and it shows pretty pictures and gives a list of what they fit them to including the Space Shuttle! http://aviation.stackexchange.com/quest ... lack-boxes To get back to the subject, thank you Stevie B for such an informed posting. 
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| Author: | Sergio [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Stevie B wrote: Citation: Me, only stopped working on fast jets 3 years ago, also Wikapedia for the SU 24 history and it shows the crash record and states suspect in some of the crashes which means no concrete evidence, in other words no accident data recorder evidence! Here is a citation of _existence_ the flight recorder for all russion warplanes http://www.topazlab.ru/production-skat-nazchENG.html Hope you'll get the info ... |
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| Author: | Pathfinder [ Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sorry Sergio but all you have found is a Software Package that is compatible with dozens of aircraft including the SU24. This is a compatible recording system and does not necessarily mean that the Russian Air Force compulsory put it into their aircraft. You obviously have lots of time on your hands in order to trawl the internet and find these snippets of information. Compatible not Compulsory. |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, but your opinion is not a fact. I'm thinking SW wouldn't be created if no devices using. |
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| Author: | Stevie B [ Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Here is the Suhoi site and their history of the SU 24, no mention of a flight recorder, that does not mean it does not have one, I think the question is do you need to know? http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/milita ... k/history/ |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
I would say (for the case) yes. Else we will see plans/maps/traces/etc plotted by opponents in own favor... |
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| Author: | Pathfinder [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio sorry but you need to get a grip, all you can ever quote is chapter and verse from articles off the WWW. Members of this forum generally debate on various topics, the debates are based on some fact, some supposition, and peoples general insights hence the word "Debates". You don't even seem to have your own opinion as you are always relying on what you consider to be reliable facts from various media sources who in your own words various media cant be trusted. My daughter has until recently held a very senior position within the BBC and I have heard a number of stories prior to their release and when released have been reported as per what I had heard in private beforehand. Not all media sources are suspect as you seem to believe and seem to be paranoid about. If you cannot comment on a topic without having nothing but scepticism for peoples views and comments I suggest you retire your keyboard and go sit in a coffee shop watch the world go by. The majority of your posts are getting quite ridiculous and actually make you look like an uneducated fool who cannot string a proper sentence together, you rely totally on the WWW to try and prove or dispel peoples thoughts, comments, observations or posts. |
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| Author: | Wavy Dave [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Pathfinder 
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| Author: | George [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
 Pathfinder. Succinct and spot on.
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| Author: | Mouse [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio re you post of the 25th, is the Fright recorder only fitted to russian warplanes ? guess it gives you a fright when you get shot down. how strange the post which had a url refering to "fright recorders " has dissappeared |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
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| Author: | Paul & Lesley [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio be careful you are on thin Ice, you are pushing your luck. You might end up joining the other ex members sitting on that bench on the moon! |
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| Author: | Sergio [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Stevie B wrote: Here is the Suhoi site and their history of the SU 24, no mention of a flight recorder, that does not mean it does not have one, I think the question is do you need to know? http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/milita ... k/history/ Here is the citation - the SU24 has flight recorder ! No need to guess or bully me. Heh. http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150213/1018216772.html |
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| Author: | M.A.D [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio wrote: Ok Sergio, I will humour you one last time…what is the significance of the picture? |
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| Author: | Stevie B [ Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio , so much for your accurate citation which states that both crew are dead, when one is clearly not and is being paraded about alive on tv! I rest my case, time for a drink!
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| Author: | Sergio [ Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
OK. So you did start your expertise here: Stevie B wrote: Most 4th and 5th generation western fast jets have them; as regards Russian fast jets I would think they would have it fitted on the later generations, but not on the one that was shot down! and finished by that Stevie B wrote: Sergio , so much for your accurate citation which states that both crew are dead, when one is clearly not and is being paraded about alive on tv! I rest my case, time for a drink! What I would say ? Probably what I'm telling myself: keep learning, don't afraid to stand corrected. Readers would pick what they want to see ... I'm done with the discussion. |
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| Author: | Wavy Dave [ Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black box recorders. |
Sergio, Stevie B has already stated he has 40 years experience in Aviation Avionics. Surely we can accept from the information he has given, that he knows what he is talking about, can't we? And please don't accuse me of bullying like the picture you have already put up at least twice, as I am merely trying to state a fact, and Stevie B's postings are extremely interesting and informative, as are Pathfinders, who also, obviously, has a certain knowledge of these systems. |
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