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Solar PV net metering
https://www.paphospeople.com/ppforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29662		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Jim B [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Yes Stormy I have; oh well fingers crossed it happens this week.

Jim
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio wrote:

Someone must eat the crow now ! :lol:


I have no idea what eating crow is all about - obviously a translation from you native tongue. :crylaughin

I still don't think you can make 5000 kwh in Cyprus, unless of course you can change the lilt and have a turntable rotation. (New panels may be better of course - mine are 2.5 years old.)
We use more electricity in the winter so our panels are set for best shoulder months solar angle, whereas in high summer almost flat is the best angle. We never get more than about 18 units a day and at this time of year it can be 15/16 depending on temperature. often we get a respectable 10 units even in winter.
This is all a bit academic because we have full AC, winter fires on chilly nights and still gave 267 units back to to EAC this year, because we could not use them. No point in making electricity you can't use, thus we decided not to increase to a nominal 5KW as is now allowed.

Sergio if you are making enough electricity for your needs, what is the issue?
Author:  Sergio [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Polemi Dave wrote:
...
Sergio if you are making enough electricity for your needs, what is the issue?

It's not an issue at all, mostly EE's drugging to finest tuneup, up to max energy possible to create. I do expect my winter consuming would go high, as I'm thinking to eliminate my Bantam gas heaters boxes, perhaps wooden fire place too. So I would like to collect max energy by PV system.
You got my mind as I did a sketch a mechanics of rotating the panel (individually) a couple hours ago.
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio wrote:
Polemi Dave wrote:
...

You got my mind as I did a sketch a mechanics of rotating the panel (individually) a couple hours ago.


If you drive on the Polemi - Kanniviou raod and stop just outside the village of Agios Dimitrianos and look left, you will see a whole valley of panels all on left-right rotation and up and down tilt. The computerised panel frames follow the sun all day, 365 days a year. This is a very expensive option and I am sure you would hate the quote to do it.
Author:  Sergio [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
It's DIY project :celebrate
Author:  Sergio [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
I want to share a graph how PV panels functioning during cloudy days vs sunny day.
Also a plot of energy produced after installation [June17 ] but visible after June 22 because of actualizing my setup at web site.
Author:  Sergio [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Here is first full month of producing energy (unfortunately, all the energy wasted, as AiK did install new digital meter at end of July)
Author:  Sergio [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
And now I got uncertainty... should I change my tariff from Code 5 to Code 7?
All my needs does covers by PV net-metering system during daytime. Of the tariff [07]will counting each unit during a day as 30c/kWh ?
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio wrote:
And now I got uncertainty... should I change my tariff from Code 5 to Code 7?
All my needs does covers by PV net-metering system during daytime. Of the tariff [07]will counting each unit during a day as 30c/kWh ?


As far as I know "net metering" is a tariff code all on its own and you can't change. Unless someone knows different.
Author:  Sergio [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Do you know where I could find the special "net-metering" tariff's description ?
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Maybe on the EAC website somewhere. However you will have signed a contract which EAC may not have given you a copy - it is all in there.

I have never heard of anyone being able to pick and chose their upload and download rates on net metering.

On a normal home with 3KW nominal net metering, it matters not as you will very likely never pay for a single unit KWH again. It you generate an excess there is no buyback, it is just lost at the end of February/March.
Author:  Sergio [ Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Here is energy production in August .
Author:  Jim B [ Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
For August we managed 829.217 KWh, for September up to now we have managed 677,975 KWh (it's still running) and if you add the three days for July when the system was turned on we have produced a total of 1.59 MWh.

Haven't had an electric bill since so waiting to see how it works out.

Jim
Author:  Sergio [ Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Yeah, I'm short for more then a month of energy from PV system; the invertor's Total is 1.56 MWh, but AiK meter does counted only 750 KWh so far...

Seems to me your PV panels have no obstructions at all, while my setup has shadows from neighbor's trees, my own water tanks, a chimney, etc.
Will be interesting see same day-per-day plots of your setup.
Author:  Sergio [ Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
For Sept 2016 and monthly production...
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio wrote:
Yeah, I'm short for more then a month of energy from PV system; the invertor's Total is 1.56 MWh, but AiK meter does counted only 750 KWh so far...

Seems to me your PV panels have no obstructions at all, while my setup has shadows from neighbor's trees, my own water tanks, a chimney, etc.
Will be interesting see same day-per-day plots of your setup.


We also have 3 pool pump panels. If we place even a finger to cast the smallest shadow over the panels, the pool motor slows down to half. This is because solar panels are in series rather than the normal parallel for electricity.
You panel installer should have done an inspection and told you this. Our 3KW panels produced 15.3 units today 3 October. They are 3 years old and not producing as much as when they were new.
Author:  Sergio [ Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
For the time mark I got 12 KWh so far ... I'm not complaining - it's just happened with my environment, some shades there and here ... no big deal, more important is how much energy my house would require winter time.
Author:  Sergio [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Here is October 2016 result.

BTW, I got my first AiK bill with Net-Metereing chapter - big surprise ! I must pay three different fee for each _theoretical_ KWh of my solar PV system ! I'll scan it and post it soon.
Author:  Jim B [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
My total for October was 609.13 Kwh and for the first 6 days of November is 103.02, the best day being the 3rd at 19.436. I've managed to generate 2.3 Mwh since the 29th July when the system was installed. I'll work out how to post the graph when I have time.

Jim
Author:  houdinibun [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Hello, we are looking at PV solar panels for our house in Polemi and this thread makes interesting reading! All the AIK stuff is in greek and therefore a bit of a mystery to me...can any of you make a recommendation for a company to get quotes from? Any advice would be greatfully received... :greetings
Author:  Sergio [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
My install done by Solar Technologies Ltd, email is [email protected], ph#26822515;
but I found local companies prefer to ignore emails (with attached docs as any business must do first) and phone calls are still have more value for them. Perhaps it's easy do give other meaning of phone conversation later on :(
Author:  Sergio [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Jim B wrote:
My total for October was 609.13 Kwh and for the first 6 days of November is 103.02, the best day being the 3rd at 19.436. I've managed to generate 2.3 Mwh since the 29th July when the system was installed. I'll work out how to post the graph when I have time.
Jim

Damn ! You got double energy.
Author:  Sergio [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Lets see if someone will help decipher the new bill.
I marked down three new charges, all of them related to my theoretical MAX power (in reality, my system barely giving out 2 KW during sunny summer day).

BTW, the tariff still unchanged - #5.
Author:  Jim B [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
I used Green Air who do tend to answer the phone. I first got my Swimming Pool Solar Pump off them, then my Net Metering and just got eight new LG AC Units for a good price. I like the way they operate, are there when they say they will be and easily contactable. Their shop is opposite the Bank of Cyprus on the way down to the Mall from the old town.

Jim
Author:  Sergio [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Jim B wrote:
I used Green Air who do tend to answer the phone. I first got my Swimming Pool Solar Pump off them, then my Net Metering and just got eight new LG AC Units for a good price. I like the way they operate, are there when they say they will be and easily contactable. Their shop is opposite the Bank of Cyprus on the way down to the Mall from the old town.

Jim

Just curious, what are they ? For the pool or PV system ? Or I must read it as "A/C" eg Air Conditioners, not as "Alternative Current" [AC] devices perhaps converting DC to AC from PV panels or backup batteries?

I did "marketing research" for a company what would sell me PV system and found Green Air and other comp does charge more for same setup.
But it would be your choice based on your preferences, etc.
Author:  Jim B [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
I initially has a solar pump fitted and later I Had a PV system fitted for Net Metering and a couple of weeks ago I head 8 new Air Conditioning Unit's fitted, so three separate jobs, I was impressed that 7 years into a 10 year guarantee on our Solar Pump they came out the same day to repair a broken impeller without any additional charge plus they will negotiate a price.

Jim
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio wrote:
Lets see if someone will help decipher the new bill.
I marked down three new charges, all of them related to my theoretical MAX power (in reality, my system barely giving out 2 KW during sunny summer day).

BTW, the tariff still unchanged - #5.


Sergio these are not new charges. I have posted before that you should expect a bill of about €15 a month even if you produce more electricity than you make. The charge is tax and standing charges based of the manufacturers absolute maximum rating for the PV panels. So on a very sunny day in May with a very cold wind blowing down from Russia your 12 panels could produce 3KW maximum for any segment or part of the day. In your case you tell us that there are several obstructions to the sunlight, that is not the EAC's fault.
You should not winge too much! When you have been running net metering for a year you will probably see that you get the summer AC free and have units in hand for the winter bills. At this time we have 750 units in credit to cover the winter bills.

Like Jim B we also have a Lorentz pool pump on completely separate 3 panel PV system.
My recommendation for installation is "Andi Solar Tech" just below Paps at the top of gasoline alley.
Author:  Sergio [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Polemi Dave wrote:
Sergio wrote:
Lets see if someone will help decipher the new bill.
I marked down three new charges, all of them related to my theoretical MAX power (in reality, my system barely giving out 2 KW during sunny summer day).

BTW, the tariff still unchanged - #5.


Sergio these are not new charges.
Actually I did expect to _explain_ particular lines as new for me - so ?...

I have posted before that you should expect a bill of about €15 a month even if you produce more electricity than you make. The charge is tax and standing charges based of the manufacturers absolute maximum rating for the PV panels.
Well, all billing systems for such utility (electricity, water, gas, etc) never been based on MAX of something: gas tank capacity, diameter of you garden hose, etc , BUT on real CONSUMING. Who cares how many potentially KW my setup have ? What it's producing is METERING ! If they want charge me _produce_ energy to common grid - tell me why I'm fined for this ?

So on a very sunny day in May with a very cold wind blowing down from Russia your 12 panels could produce 3KW maximum for any segment or part of the day. In your case you tell us that there are several obstructions to the sunlight, that is not the EAC's fault.
You don't need go into obvious things when some EE is asking for _real_ reasons. Cannot ? Skip my post whatsoever.

You should not winge too much!
No need to put down a person when try to answer him - bad habit ?
....
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio - I know English is not your first language, but even allowing for that I cannot understand what you are complaining about. I have tried to explain to you how the charges are calculated and why you are not getting the electricity you expect.

You chose to see that as "putting you down", when this is not the case. I was one of the very first EAC customers to install Net Metering, so I thought I was qualified to answer your complaints/questions.

I don't know what you expectations for PV are? Did you really think EAC were going to provide night time power, the cabling to your house, a repairs service and an accounting department, all free? Also that the government was going to exempt Sergio from the tax all others pay? You are getting mostly free units for just €15 a month.
Perhaps those not on net metering would like to give their opinion as to whether they would swap their bi-monthly bills for yours?

No one is putting you down, but don't ask a question if you are too thin skinned to accept the answer. :sunny
Author:  Sergio [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
I didn't expect I'll get into such turmoil with simple questions.

If English is your native language, all what is need - read the bill and provide answers to marked positions. Assuming those who doing that have the knowledge. Real. No need a personal interpretation or giving passages about anything but the bill.
You still don't unfortunately.

May be other more knowledgeable person could speak.

To clarify some bubbling above: first part of the bill does show the charges for run my account, print my bills, etc

Night , actually, correct to say, a time when the PV system doesn't produce own energy or making less then the house's equipment taking, the energy taking from AiK grid is METERING as "I" and accountable by its value. Not by that MAX PV system.

Last thing - again - this is not a complain, but merely RFC (a request for clarification) !
No need to put someone's words in my mouth. And get into personal pressure pointing to language, etc.

Just the bill and purpose of the charges. Or govnt docs or links or scan of docs, etc.
Thanks.
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio wrote:

May be other more knowledgeable person could speak.


Go for it Sergio :morning
Author:  houdinibun [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Thank you to those that made suggestions for us x
Author:  Sergio [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
November is finished, I got pretty low energy production ~200KWh; it was not that many cloudy days, but the Sun is low and shadow from water tanks blocking it on part of panels for a couple hours, also solar panels sitting on a roof under 17 degree - too low for winter time [instead of 70+ degree].
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
We were still making between 13KWH & 15.3KWH per day every day last week. :sunny
Author:  Sergio [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Damn !

Could you show orientation of your PV panels, please ? Azimuth and elevation's angles ?
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio wrote:
Damn !

Could you show orientation of your PV panels, please ? Azimuth and elevation's angles ?


Perfect due south and something between 35% & 45% I think (I left that to the installer as they are ground mounted and I have no device to accurately measure the angle). Tropical Polemi is the location, we don't have Azimuth at our local Taverna only Zivania. :sunny

I do wash the panels every couple of weeks and that makes a big difference.
Author:  SFD [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Polemi Dave wrote:
Sergio wrote:
Damn !

Could you show orientation of your PV panels, please ? Azimuth and elevation's angles ?


Perfect due south and something between 35% & 45% I think (I left that to the installer as they are ground mounted and I have no device to accurately measure the angle). Tropical Polemi is the location, we don't have Azimuth at our local Taverna only Zivania. :sunny

I do wash the panels every couple of weeks and that makes a big difference.

You could clean them with Zivania. I understand it works on furniture and fire-grates. ;-)
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio - this might be of help for you, as to why your production is so much down.
I also have a stand alone PV pool pump. When the pool pump is running normally just placing a finger over any part of any of the panels causes the pump to reduce by up to 50% in speed. This is caused because PV panels are in "series" not "parallel" and any interruption in sunlight however small has a much greater effect that you might imagine. In fact shadow interference has a vastly disproportionate effect on generation and is definitely not proportional to the area in shadow.

While every installation gets some shadow in winter, your installer should have surveyed your site and advised you accordingly before going ahead.

You have only 2 choices. Either you move the panels to a better location, if possible or you put up with the reduced generation. I have this same problem at another property we own, the neighbours palm tree is growing up to block the pool pump panels. Next year I will probably have to move the panels as the neighbour won't cut his tree down.
Author:  Sergio [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Unfortunately I have no other place for relocating the panels - my roof is consist of three slopes: to north, to east and west. East and west parts taken by the panels. I cannot move the water tanks "pyramid" also. And no space on the ground.
It would be interesting to see how much energy your PV system produced during last two rainy days of November.
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Sergio
I don't run a computer daily read out, I only know how much in a day if I read it off the inverter. The last 2 rainy days I have made nothing to speak off.

If you wish to increase your panels you are going to need:
A new inverter as yours is most probably a 3KW type
Permission from EAC and that involves a new application fee, a new electrical test,
& an increased monthly bill as your nominal panel value will have increased.

I know you will not be happy with the increased bill :rain and I think you will find that option not economic. However get your installer to price it for you.
Author:  Sergio [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
I'm thinking of the adjustment as small DIY project ;) .
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Probably you won't get caught. However do take care, 400+Volts DC even at 4amps is enough to stop your heart as well as give you a serious burn. Certainly enough to knock you right off the roof. :explode
Author:  Sergio [ Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
No worry, I've been educated, did have a permit for work on circuits up to 1000V and many years of experience as EE.

BTW, the current is going to 8-10 Amps in sunny days!
Author:  Sergio [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Here is last month of production my PV system. I know why the amount is so low and I'm working on it ...
Author:  Sergio [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
A question: do someone (running such PV system) got a bill or some official note about cut-off day/month ?
I mean when accumulating units [KWh] from your home should be nullified by AiK.
March ? What day ?
Author:  PW in Polemi [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Morning Sergio

I found this on the AHK website

The Cyprus Energy Regulatory Authority (CERA), has issued a Decision determining that the final clearing of surplus electricity of Net Metering Producers/Consumers (Prosumers) as carried out by EAC, is February-March every year.

According to the net metering of Prosumers participating in the Photovoltaic Systems Net Metering Scheme, a calculation is made of the difference between electricity imported from the power grid to meet the needs of the Prosumer's premises and electricity generated by the PV system, which is injected to the electricity grid every billing period. Any excess is transferred to the following billing period while any shortage is charged.

Final electricity clearing is performed on the final bill of each 12-month net metering period, as determined by the Decision.

At present, the electricity clearing of the net metering year is the Prosumer's bill which records input/output for February or March.

Any excess power cannot be transferred from one net metering year to the next.

So any units you have generated but not used up, will be nullified after your bill for February or March, whichever billing period you are on. Just remember that although your invoice will say, for example, billing period 25/01/17 - 25/03/17, does not mean they actually read the meter on the 25th of the month! We've noticed some occasions when the meter reader is anything up to 2 weeks late, which has a big impact on those paying for electricity as the late reading may push their consumption into the next price bracket. :-(

Are you at home when the meter reader comes, or can you set up some system whereby you will know if your meter cupboard has been opened, without preventing access to the meter reader? (assuming you don't have extremely nosy neighbours!)
Author:  Sergio [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Thank you Kay for the quote.

Now I should consider factors:
- each billing period (bi-monthly in my case) do keep current Out value higher then In (both are accumulated counters from last Feb-April bill's values) to avoid pay for electricity as best case scenario
- utilize all KWh what is left unused, before AiK will get my meter values around April, 20 as my billing period is 20/02-21/04

If I understand the system correctly ...

Or I must concern about a day in Feb,~20 ? As cut-off date...
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
End of February cut off for you. This is the best time as sunlight levels really start to increase in March.
Author:  Sergio [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Polemi Dave wrote:
End of February cut off for you. This is the best time as sunlight levels really start to increase in March.

Got it.

Now I need balancing in heating of the house between negative balance (130 KWh) of electricity and gas or wood ...

I'm expecting get another 130 KWh by my PV system for January and more (200 KWh ?) in February. All would depend on how low temp will be.
Author:  Polemi Dave [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar PV net metering
Only 130 left, we still have 460. :sunny
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