Paphos People

Just been reading this, about another "Honour killing" in Iraq:



Now I know it's easy to simply condemn actions like this, but trying to see it from both sides, how warped must this man's world view be if the only way he can see out of a situation like this is to kill his own daughter? And how does someone's perspective get so skewed - is it just cultural/religious "brainwashing" or does it go deeper than that? And is it ever acceptable for a state to effectively sanction killing?

Can any of you envisage a situation that would drive you to kill another human being, especially if you knew the state would not take action against you? Have to be honest, I think I probably can....

Different culture and accepted although it would nver happen in uk.They want sharia laws in uk.Would it be acceptable to remove a prisoners hand if he burgled as they want moslems treated differently in uk.Would they treat us differently i think not.

There fore sharia law should not be in uk.Only my perspective on things.

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I wouldn't think twice about taking another life if that person hurt my children or even attempted to harm me or anyone I cared for

I do not think that it is right to take another person's life for whatever reason. BUT I do believe in an eye for an eye situation and if someone murders another and we are 100% sure that they did it then I think that they should be killed by a lethal injection.

Until we in the UK start really punishing bad offenders then we will keep sliding into a worse society to live in. I want to be able to walk the steets without fear and I want my family to be safe. I could kill if someone hurt any of my family and got a soft sentence then I would be waiting for them.

Having lived in Saudi I have got to say that I was not afraid to go out to the shopping areas. Punishments are tough but then it does make people think twice about commiting such crimes.

Honour killings I think are not right even for so called religious reasons.

Jan

I am ex Saudi and wonder how many of our offenders would survive there stay in saudi jail

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Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly!
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Well for a start Frank there would be no choice of menu in prison but mainly food that any visitors brought in for them or just a rice slop and water. I know because there was a prison behind our compound and the men used to take the prisoners food to the gate.

No television or entertainment to watch. Loads of men sharing one room with a hole in the floor for a loo. Disgusting maybe but not many ever wanted to return on their release.

One of the guys we knew ran a red light in his car and he was banged up for two days and fined. He tried to stand up in the cell for most of the time and did not eat and was exhausted when released and starving. Like you say wonder how many of our offenders would wish to hell they had not offended when treated like that.

Jan

Yeah, that's kind of the area I was thinking of too - so would you say this Iraqi bloke was right to do what he did though??

britian is to soft on prisoners, the pc brigade have seen to that,
about ten years ago, i was working in one of the wings in brixton prison, in south west london,
whilst waiting outside the main gate, to go through, there was a mini bus coming out, with prisoners in,
i asked one of the "screws" if they were going to court or something,
and to my suprise, he said "no there going swimming"
great i thought, there's me going to do an honest days work, and people of all illks that have commited crimes ect. are being rewarded by being taken swimming.

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furniture maker

I don't think it will ever happen again in this country but what do you think about capital punishment? Do you think that we need to bring this back?

Personally, and these are my views and not that of my profession, I think that if there is no doubt that the person is guilty i.e. Yorkshire Ripper, Ian Huntley et al then they should lose their life. If there is any slightest doubt then no.

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Sarah & Phil

nico i dont know what profession you're in, but it seems something like the police force, the way the law works in the uk, even if someone was bang to rites, there would always be a loop hole to contest his crime.

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furniture maker

I do not agree with capital punishment - I used to - until I was visited by CID one day out of the blue. My crime? apparently I had a phone call on my mobile a year before and someone was murdered. They took DNA samples, and as a Pilot I could have visited the crime and got back in my aircraft (thank god for radar traces and airfield logs!). I then realised how easy it is to answer a wrong number and then end up on death row.

So no to Capital Punishment - the legal system is not 100%. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time can have serious consequences.

There never can be Honour in killing any living creature - even though some people to push the boundary's.

Digby

OK My Time To Upset (some) People!!!

The police, laws, courts and procedures in the UK are totally sr*w*d now!

If anyone was to hurt me, my family or my property I WILL hurt them back TWICE as bad. And I have done so in the past…

My wife and I do not work 7 days a week to provide some SCUMBAG with something to steal, destroy, rape or murder.

Get a LIFE people --- Stand up for your rights. We do!!!

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Bring back National Service. That will stop a lot of ****** coming to the UK.

Bring back Capital Punishment. That WILL stop a lot of crime OVERNIGHT!!!
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Frank

I really do know how you can do your job! My FIL was in the service for years, in the end he ONLY stayed for the pension!
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Nico

What every your profession is; I agree with your views.
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As for the man that MURDERED his daughter in Basra – I hope he ROTS in HELL!!!

I know what you are saying Stuart and i would want to kill who had hurt mine ,but there will always be the was it the right one.
Tricia

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new me new life, , never forget my cyprus life and friends .

Stuart,

I do fully understand where you are coming from, but and this is a big but - I do not have sufficient faith in the law (sorry nico08) to be behind capital punishment. My younger brother is in the MOD police, and provides armed backup to the civil police (unfortunately he also trains both MOD and civil Police as well) - so I have some idea what the serving police officers have to endure.

Fortunately, we are in Cyprus - they can shoot first and ask questions later - Stuart - much better to have a "hunting" accident than endure the questions as in the UK.

Digby

What work was you doing in prison ?

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Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly!
Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably
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Arsenal - yes I am.

If the legal system was more in favour of the victim rather than the offender then it would work better. The way it works should be set by people who are actually doing the job rather than those sitting in plush offices (sweeping generalisation I know).

At the very least, life should mean life and not x amount of years less time off for good behaviour.

I'm hoping to arrest someone tomorrow for criminal damage and attempt theft who has a string of offences and failing to answer bail - he is currently wanted on warrant for failing to answer bail - I bet you he will go 'no comment' in interview and will be bailed ready to do it again. I have spent 4 hours of my shift tonight preparing the paperwork for tomorrow trying to ensure I have enough evidence to try and keep him on remand but I am not holding out too much hope. This is not the sort of service the public should receive from the police or legal system but what can we do?:evil:

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Sarah & Phil

Digby - on the flip side to this and I'm not being patronising, the investigation proved that you were not involved - we have to prove and disprove people's involvements.

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Sarah & Phil

I am not a religious person at all but I cannot believe that any god would condone killings one's own child. I defy anyone to find anything in the koran that endorses it. I suppose in warped way I could see that if he had killed the guy he could argue he was defending his daughter from the spell of the evil british heathen. I cannot fathom how a father could kill his own daughter - and then justify it!

It seems to be more in the Pakistani and Indian communities that are brought up to believe these so called "honour" killings and I suppose what is inbred is hard to change. We cannot understand such behaviour and such killing is a tragedy.

When we lived in Oman though my husband was caught up in an honour situation and it was very scary. He was asked to do a photograph of a lady for a beauty book being published in Oman. He insisted that the lady was chaperoned in the studio and signed to say that she understood the picture was being published. Next thing Police arrive at the door and take his passport since the Father of the girl had complained that his daughter's honour had been spoiled and he wanted compensation.
At this point the boss of the company said he knew nothing of the situation (lies). My husband was held under house arrest and went to court 4 times and it was all done in Arabic. We had to pay all the lawyers fees and had no salary and this went on for four months. I sold our home to cover the escalating costs.
At the end of the case he was told their was no case to answer and he was free to leave the Country. We could not claim any expenses back. Lost us a fortune. The Father was just after a quick buck since he had done it before. Nightmare for us.
Honour my foot he was a rogue.

How scarry for you Jan,(and costly).
Tricia

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new me new life, , never forget my cyprus life and friends .

This is the so called offending picture in the book. The only thing her father said was that her face had been shown to non members of the family and without a veil. Yes well she had agreed to that and signed to say that she understood. Also her Mother attended the shoot with her. Never mind water under the bridge now as they say. Rotten apples are in every box along with all the good ones.

Jan

As you said Jan just using as a way to make a fast buck.money can make bad world over.
Tricia

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new me new life, , never forget my cyprus life and friends .

That's one of the key points for me - been reading a bit more around this subject and it seems there's a strong correlation between a relative lack of formal education and a high level of these honour killings - combine strongly held cultural/religious beliefs and the absence of a forum to develop the tools to question this and it is very difficult to see how it can ever change?

I wouldn't class fallen in love with someone as being a reason for being killed, even if it was shaming the rest of the family, they could have just banished her, so the family/father should be punished for murder yes

In the Uk how many parents have murdered their childrens murderer.Might have to google it but i don't recollect any.I guess it is your genes.I know folk say they would do it.

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So maybe I would be the first then as I don't just say it, I mean it

I forgot to say, even if the person responsible was in prison for the crime, I'd get myself put in there just to get at them, maybe that's why its never been done before Frank, as the culprit is either arrested before the parents egt to them or they never get arrested

Sorry nice try pete but you would be sussed out straight away by me as you would first come in to reception.I would be first person you meet.I realise this is touchy subject but nearest it ever gets is person gets his comeuppence.

_________________
Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly!
Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably
And never regret anything that made you smile Warning Internet forums may contain nuts

I find honour killings totally abhorant. But, and this is in no way condoning the situation. I do have an insight into the 'inner workings' of mixed race families. I was married to an english guy. His 2 brothers, were married to chinese - mainland China not Hong Kong. His sister married to an Indian who was very religious, his first cousin married to a Burmese. Now the family rows were amazing at Christmas get togethers, very heated indeed. It was quite easy to see how their verbal threats could easily become physical. As a race, the Chinese don't like the Indians and vice-versa. Neither of the predimoninant factions ie the Indians and Chinese wanted their children marrying outside of their race even though the children were of mixed race. Whilst honour was mentioned, consistantly, killing never was,.... but it came close.
I was the only 'white' OH and I just sat back and watched the fireworks but it could get hairy.
Honour killings eminate from lack of education mixed with misguided religion and should never be condoned.

Tiggy

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Life is what you make it.

Helen

So you're not a prison guard, you're a receptionist then

Believe me Frank when I say if I wanted to get at the person, I'd find a way of being put in that prison, I have ways & means

Any way this is all "IF"Pete lets pray that you never have to but this to the test and youre family stays safe and happy.
Tricia

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new me new life, , never forget my cyprus life and friends .

You are completely correct there Tricia, 'IF' it should ever happen but back to the topic of the Iraqi man who killed his daughter because she fell in love with a British soldier, did he kill her because her lover was British or because she fell in love

Bet there are few hotels in uk that would like to see how many receptions we get in

_________________
Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly!
Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably
And never regret anything that made you smile Warning Internet forums may contain nuts

See that's where I would have to draw the line - I can envisage circumstances where I would be tempted to take the law into my own hands, but I aint doing time for no man!

Not even if he killed your child

So love does have boundries for some

Well I don't have kids, but if they're already dead I can't see how killing their murderer is going to help, especially if that means I have to spend the rest of my life inside so my wife and any other hypothetical kids have to manage without me!

Well as you don't have kids, that debate is a no brainer but lets say someone killed the most important person in your life, say your wife & has you have no kids to worry about, would you still be of the same mind set

Pete most of us say that we would kill for loved ones but i think few would. as i said let all hope it is a test we never have to face.
Tricia,

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new me new life, , never forget my cyprus life and friends .

Bloody Hell Pete, are you some kind of psycho ?
When do you want those Mars Bars ?
I wasn't really gonna give you them but after reading this thread I don't wanna be in your bad books.
Gary

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So close yet so far away

Its only for my children Gary, although I have been know to kneecap for choclate before

Don't get me wrong folks, I have the patients of a saint normally, I must have to Administrate a public forum but where my boys are concerned, lets just say I haven't spent the last 38 years sat behind a computer

But as Tricia has said, lets hope it never comes to that & unlike the man this thread is about, I don't think I would kill my sons if they fell in love with someone of a different sex, nationality or religion