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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:21 am 
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NICOSIA (Reuters) - Britain has offered to hand over almost half of its sovereign territory in Cyprus to facilitate a peace deal between the island's estranged Greek and Turkish Cypriots, the United Nations said on Tuesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5A93XE20091110


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Been told that Episkopi SBA is to go, it's been a ghost town for some time now compared to thye 60s, what is left of the garrison will move to Akrotiri.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:03 am 
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The talk here in the East is that it will be a big portion of Dhekelia, but it is right and proper to give land back that you never owned in the first place. The SBA,s imho should,nt be here now, they are expensive and not really needed by the forces anymore. The guys here at Ay Nick don,t see Cyprus as a cushy number at all, but Ay Nick will be the one that definitely stays.

As we all know many of the forces have to stay on the bases for one reason or another so they get bored with the life and the UN role in Nicosia is not regarded as a good post anymore either.

I,m not knocking the forces here at all, they are a wonderful part of the UK and have all my support but 'owning' part of another country to house those bases is not PC anymore and only should be allowed if invited to do so.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:01 am 
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I,m not knocking the forces here at all, they are a wonderful part of the UK and have all my support but 'owning' part of another country to house those bases is not PC anymore and only should be allowed if invited to do so.

Bugger PC. There should be a proviso that no title deeds for any SBAs are available and the Cypriot government will have to pay all the oustanding mortgages, debts and taxes etc just like we're being told to. And that's for land we've paid for!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:07 am 
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The issue of Title Deeds in Cyprus is a very serious and very damaging one to all of us me included at one time, so I would never undermine that with politics as such,

The president here will be under the EU presidency in 2012 and all of Cyprus,s shortcomings will be spotlighted then not least the Title Deed saga, plus water shortages, economy etc.

But the bases are not useful in the main anymore and cost the british taxpayer to keep them running, the land around the bases is what will be returned though not the actual bases yet. But how can a country return land to a country that already owns it? Has never paid for it in anyway at all and is actually 3% of the actual territory.

I have cutted and pasted below a comment from another Forum which reflects my views on the SBA,s:-


To 'return' just under half of the SBA area to Cyprus - the rightful owner of the land - would be a start. But it shouldn't be dependant on a 'settlement'. It should be returned, full stop. And returned in its entirety, or a reasonable 'rent' paid for any area used as a base - as with virtually every other military base on foreign soil in the world. (Whichever countries are involved.)

In the 1980s, when the only public road from Larnaka to Ayia Napa and Protaras etc passed through the ESBA, the journey was a horror story. Obnoxious and extremely rude Military Police stopped every single vehicle, demanding ID, searching vehicles - and often terrifying young children. Admittedly that no longer happens. But there are still so many anomalies. Why should the SBA have control over so many kilometres of coast? Why should they dictate what happens inland etc.?

Even if you accept the 'justification' for maintaining a British Base or Bases on Cyprus, there is no justification for the amount of land involved.


Much of which is not used for any British MoD purposes....

This offer, first made in association with the Anan plan (initially a reasonable option, sabotaged in the last 24 hours of its evolution and turned into a farce) is hardly a big deal. Just designed to make Britain appear as if it's doing something. When in fact it's doing nothing useful...other than perhaps sending its TA to contribute to UNFICYP.

The bases have never been here for the benefit of Cyprus/Cypriots.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:28 pm 
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Lynsab wrote:
The talk here in the East is that it will be a big portion of Dhekelia, but it is right and proper to give land back that you never owned in the first place. The SBA,s imho should,nt be here now, they are expensive and not really needed by the forces anymore. The guys here at Ay Nick don,t see Cyprus as a cushy number at all, but Ay Nick will be the one that definitely stays.

As we all know many of the forces have to stay on the bases for one reason or another so they get bored with the life and the UN role in Nicosia is not regarded as a good post anymore either.

I,m not knocking the forces here at all, they are a wonderful part of the UK and have all my support but 'owning' part of another country to house those bases is not PC anymore and only should be allowed if invited to do so.

Before you make uneducated posts you should get to know the full facts which are a million miles away from what you imply
The SBAs were an agreed item at the time of independence, the land is not owned by the UK it is rented.
The SBAs have benefited the Cypriot people more than anyone by providing employment and subsatantial income to the Cypriot people.
As I've said before most of the married personel from the Akrotiri and Episkopi SBAs lived down town in Limassol where the accomodation was provided by the Cypriots themselves along with the Cypriot transport that took service personenl to and from camp.
Large numbers of civilians were employed on the bases including our landlady along with those employed at the many establishments in Limassol itself.
The big changes came first with the Turkish invasion which led to the families being housed on camp along with the massive cuts in HM forces and finaly the out of bounds orders due to bad behavour didn't help either.
So please stop the PC posturing it is totaly out of place and order.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:57 pm 
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Um, not quite right I think. The following is from the SBA website:

"Under the Treaty of Establishment, the Bases remain Sovereign British Territory under the Crown until “the Government of the United Kingdom, in view of changes in their military requirements, at any time decide to divest themselves of the sovereignty or effective control over the SBAs or any part thereof”".

This, I suggest, makes it clear that the SBA territory was never part of the Republic of Cyprus and therefore no rent or lease payments would be appropriate. It is a different situation for installations such as Troodos Camp. The fact of the matter is that the SBAs do not form part of any country and are not a country in themselves. A unique situation, I think.

My view is that the SBAs should cease to exist, the land should be passed to the Republic, and any millitary camp requirements should be on a lease-back basis.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Josef K wrote:
Um, not quite right I think. The following is from the SBA website:

"Under the Treaty of Establishment, the Bases remain Sovereign British Territory under the Crown until “the Government of the United Kingdom, in view of changes in their military requirements, at any time decide to divest themselves of the sovereignty or effective control over the SBAs or any part thereof”".

This, I suggest, makes it clear that the SBA territory was never part of the Republic of Cyprus and therefore no rent or lease payments would be appropriate. It is a different situation for installations such as Troodos Camp. The fact of the matter is that the SBAs do not form part of any country and are not a country in themselves. A unique situation, I think.

My view is that the SBAs should cease to exist, the land should be passed to the Republic, and any millitary camp requirements should be on a lease-back basis.
Well that Differs from what we were told before being posted to Cyprus regarding actual ownership, there is also an SBA police force which is made up mainly of Cypriot personel.
Regardless of ownership and rent issues the Cypriots benefitted immensely from the existence of these establishments. Speak to any of the mature genertation in Limassol who lived there before the invasion and you will find that most had some form of connection with HM Forces be it direct or family.
We still visit with the daughter of the people that we rented our house from, she went on to also rent to forces familys; she will tell a different story to how some on here try to make out.

Finaly had there not been a British prescence on Cyprus in 1974 you would (ex pats) more than likely all now be living under Turkish Rule!

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Last edited by Bassman62 on Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Without being flippant that might not be a bad thing.

At least you know where you stand. In Turkey I'm told if you don't have your title deeds within a certain time, the vendor can go to prison. And wan't it the Turks who set up the land registry? One that is boasted as being 'one of the most modern in the world'.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:13 pm 
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Bassman62 wrote:
Lynsab wrote:
The talk here in the East is that it will be a big portion of Dhekelia, but it is right and proper to give land back that you never owned in the first place. The SBA,s imho should,nt be here now, they are expensive and not really needed by the forces anymore. The guys here at Ay Nick don,t see Cyprus as a cushy number at all, but Ay Nick will be the one that definitely stays.

As we all know many of the forces have to stay on the bases for one reason or another so they get bored with the life and the UN role in Nicosia is not regarded as a good post anymore either.

I,m not knocking the forces here at all, they are a wonderful part of the UK and have all my support but 'owning' part of another country to house those bases is not PC anymore and only should be allowed if invited to do so.

Before you make uneducated posts you should get to know the full facts which are a million miles away from what you imply
The SBAs were an agreed item at the time of independence, the land is not owned by the UK it is rented.
The SBAs have benefited the Cypriot people more than anyone by providing employment and subsatantial income to the Cypriot people.
As I've said before most of the married personel from the Akrotiri and Episkopi SBAs lived down town in Limassol where the accomodation was provided by the Cypriots themselves along with the Cypriot transport that took service personenl to and from camp.
Large numbers of civilians were employed on the bases including our landlady along with those employed at the many establishments in Limassol itself.
The big changes came first with the Turkish invasion which led to the families being housed on camp along with the massive cuts in HM forces and finaly the out of bounds orders due to bad behavour didn't help either.
So please stop the PC posturing it is totaly out of place and order.


The Cypriot people employed is a small percentage of the working population now, your glaring mistake regarding the SBA,s being rented by the UK has never happened. Many Cypriots do NOT like part of their territory being kept by an ex colonial power for so long. Who agreed the SBA,s would be allowed? The SBA,s while not interfering now in the lives of the Cypriots did so for a long time after independence.

My opinion unlike yours was a damn sight more educated had nothing whatsoever to do with PC posturing and yes I know people from pre 1974 posted here, they feel like I do the SBA,s on foreign soil, where the countries govt has no sovereignty over them in the 21st century is an embarassment to the UK and handing back something they never owned in the first place is about time. Paying for what they intend to still keep here would be another very good gesture. Your opinions are somewhat outdated in the 21st century, bases in foriegn countries only should be allowed if invited and if paid for, why should the UK be different, and what part did the bases play in the 74 invasion apart from a safe haven for some? Did,nt the UK govt actually know about the coming Turkish invasion? You are living way way in the past and always ready to spit at someone on here you really need to get a grip.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:18 pm 
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Nosher wrote:
Without being flippant that might not be a bad thing.

At least you know where you stand. In Turkey I'm told if you don't have your title deeds within a certain time, the vendor can go to prison. And wan't it the Turks who set up the land registry? One that is boasted as being 'one of the most modern in the world'.


I think that if you own property in the north right now you will have more than lack of deeds to worry about like will you still actually have a property? If you look regularly on the norths forums you will also notice they too have exactly the same problems regarding lawyers crooked developers ppt,s and Kocans in fact pretty much the same as in the RoC, but somewhat worse.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:13 am 
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Lynsab wrote:
Bassman62 wrote:
Lynsab wrote:
You are living way way in the past and always ready to spit at someone on here you really need to get a grip.
What a sad pathetic response; you don't know what the benefits of the bases were to the Cypriots, I'm speaking from experience and knowledge.
It would be very interesting to know how far back your actual knowledge goes.
So we were misinformed about the rent; that's no big deal.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:15 am 
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Lynsab wrote:
in fact pretty much the same as in the RoC, but somewhat worse.
That makes as much sense as the rest of you postings on the subject. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:01 am 
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Your not going to drag me into a slanging match as you always appear to do on here, shame really as this is a good Forum spoiled only by a few, personal remarks are as about affective as a chocolate fireguard to me though so carry on, its just lost on many of us sad pathetic individuals :roll: Whenever I post in future I expect you will be ready to pounce on my opinions, get a life man, as with your own, they are just that, opinions. But in my case educated ones :lol: :lol: :lol: It might be better to actually live here to know what you are talking about :iamwin :greetings

Btw you did,nt actually answer any of my response,s in my last 'informed' post, just on my conclusion, what does that show, you don,t maybe know the answers?

Problems in the north ARE much worse that the south. Perhaps you need re educating on the subject of Cyprus you know so little that is correct.

I woud,nt mind but even the UK want to get rid of the expensive and under used SBA,s as well.

Some facts for you;-

The British did nothing to stop the invasion nor did they help to move the Turkish troops out when the legitimate government was restored to power. The Royal Navy had an aircraft carrier on standby but they were called off, as the Americans were unwilling to support intervention and Britain could not/would not go it alone. Under the treaty of guarantee the British should have moved as soon as the first reports of the attrocities the Turks committed came in. The British troops that did put up resistance were actually fighting under the UN flag around Nicosia to defend the airport. For the rest the only British involvement was letting the refugees from Famagusta poor into the Dhekelia SBA looking for protection and for evacuating the Turkish Cypriots from Limassol to the northern part of the island.

The truth is that the British have played a very negative role in Cyprus between 1950 and 1974. First they tried to control the island through terror and martial law, and later through division. Subsequently they setup the treaties to make Cyprus independent under the guarantee of Turkey, Greece and themselves without asking one single Cypriot whether that is what they wanted, let alone as to how they wanted it (to this day there is still not a Cypriot signature under any of the treaties that established Cyprus as a state - they were simply not asked). Subsequently, the British government did not respect the Treaty of Guarantee, which the British government deviced.

Have a good life.....


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:23 pm 
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Lynsab wrote:
Your not going to drag me into a slanging match as you always appear to do on here, shame really as this is a good Forum spoiled only by a few, personal remarks are as about affective as a chocolate fireguard to me though so carry on, its just lost on many of us sad pathetic individuals :roll: Whenever I post in future I expect you will be ready to pounce on my opinions, get a life man, as with your own, they are just that, opinions. But in my case educated ones :lol: :lol: :lol: It might be better to actually live here to know what you are talking about :iamwin :greetings

Btw you did,nt actually answer any of my response,s in my last 'informed' post, just on my conclusion, what does that show, you don,t maybe know the answers?

Problems in the north ARE much worse that the south. Perhaps you need re educating on the subject of Cyprus you know so little that is correct.

I woud,nt mind but even the UK want to get rid of the expensive and under used SBA,s as well.

Some facts for you;-

The British did nothing to stop the invasion nor did they help to move the Turkish troops out when the legitimate government was restored to power. The Royal Navy had an aircraft carrier on standby but they were called off, as the Americans were unwilling to support intervention and Britain could not/would not go it alone. Under the treaty of guarantee the British should have moved as soon as the first reports of the attrocities the Turks committed came in. The British troops that did put up resistance were actually fighting under the UN flag around Nicosia to defend the airport. For the rest the only British involvement was letting the refugees from Famagusta poor into the Dhekelia SBA looking for protection and for evacuating the Turkish Cypriots from Limassol to the northern part of the island.

The ...

Yet more uneducated twaddle from a Johnny-come-lately to the island.
After independence HMForces continued to police the ongoing friction between the Greek & Turkish Cypriots, in 1964/5 they informed the UN that they were not going to carry on policing and that a UN prescence should be established in Cyprus, therefore it was not the responsibilty of the British to repel the Turkich invasion.
It was the British prescence though namely the Ghurkas that halted the Turkish advance at The eastern end of the Island. Happy Valley Episkopi was the haven for many GC refugees.
Regarding the 1974 invasion the Greek Cypriot politicians only have themselves to blame for the way that they had treat the Turkish Cypriots since independence, as in many cases around the world the the general population held no animosity to each other; there were no obvious signs that you were crossing ove from one sector of limassol to another; GCs & TCs regularly cohabited and visited socialy in those days.
BTW I have lived in Cyprus twice; since and after the invasion and visited regularly in the meantime, how long have you lived in Cyprus and when did you start visiting?

So please get off of your PC soap box.

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